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Old October 25th, 2007, 06:50 AM   #16
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If I am corret the limiters in 302 are adjustable, in 702 not. At least in 722 I have found only on/off thing for the limiters in the menus.

Correct me if I am wrong.
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Old October 26th, 2007, 03:42 PM   #17
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need help with basics

In regard to a "mixer", I am planning to record to the camera, not a separate audio recorder. Is a mixer of much use in this instance? If so, whiat does it accomplish & how to you put it into the connection mix? Thanks guys, I know it's really basic, but I just can't seem to make sense of it.
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Old October 26th, 2007, 06:24 PM   #18
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In regard to a "mixer", I am planning to record to the camera, not a separate audio recorder. Is a mixer of much use in this instance? If so, whiat does it accomplish & how to you put it into the connection mix? Thanks guys, I know it's really basic, but I just can't seem to make sense of it.
With a mixer you get tighter control over recording levels, better limiters, and you probably can send your signal to the camera as line level instead of mic level, thereby possibly bypassing the often less than sterling performing preamps in the camera itself. (Camera models vary, of course).
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Old October 26th, 2007, 09:04 PM   #19
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With a mixer you get tighter control over recording levels, better limiters, and you probably can send your signal to the camera as line level instead of mic level, ...
And, uh... it gives another crew member something to do! Which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on their skills.

To my way of thinking, if you're a one-man-band, a mixer hanging around your neck or off the tripod is a hassle and one more thing to take attention. Unless you're setting for some long shots...

On the other hand, if you have someone who is doing sound with you, a mixer is pretty essential.

I certainly agree with Steve's observations, but you also need to consider crewing and workflow.
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Old October 27th, 2007, 09:02 AM   #20
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Mostly will be the "one man band" mode, so your point is well taken. However, for some things I will be able to have someone help, who is actually an accomplished musician, so has a good ear. What is the effective difference between line & mic input? Is there a reasonable low cost mixer to be recommended? Thank you sincerely for the guidance!
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Old October 27th, 2007, 09:03 AM   #21
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Forgot to mention, the camera is a GL2, so will be going through a Beachtek device.
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Old October 27th, 2007, 11:24 AM   #22
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Mostly will be the "one man band" mode, so your point is well taken. However, for some things I will be able to have someone help, who is actually an accomplished musician, so has a good ear. What is the effective difference between line & mic input? Is there a reasonable low cost mixer to be recommended? Thank you sincerely for the guidance!
Mic level signals are the very low level signal coming from most microphones while line level is the much stronger signals typically found when connecting devices together such as going from a mixer to a recorder or a preamplifier to a power amplifier. Mic levels are typically on the order of a few millivolts while line levels range from about half a volt up to a couple of volts. The practical consequences of the difference are that if you plug a microphone into an input designed to accept line levels the signal will be so weak as to be inaudible while plugging a line level into a mic level input will result in a signal that is severely overloaded and distorted. Preamps (and usually mixers) boost mic signals to line levels (among other things) while pads and attenuators can be used to reduce line down to mic levels.

"Low cost" is a matter of viewpoint. Two very popular professional quality mixers for ENG-style field production are the 2-channel Sound Devices MixPre at about $675 and the Sound Devices 302 3-channel mixer at about $1300. Sound gear doesn't change anywhere nearly as quickly as camera gear so a quality mixer is definitely an investment for the long term. What you buy today will continue to be equally useful 10 years down the road.
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Old October 27th, 2007, 03:32 PM   #23
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These responses are very helpful, thank you both very much. I will eventually figure this out with help from the good folks here, I am sure. Thank you for your patience & guidance.
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Old October 28th, 2007, 08:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Seth Bloombaum View Post
And, uh... it gives another crew member something to do! Which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on their skills.

To my way of thinking, if you're a one-man-band, a mixer hanging around your neck or off the tripod is a hassle and one more thing to take attention. Unless you're setting for some long shots...

On the other hand, if you have someone who is doing sound with you, a mixer is pretty essential.

I certainly agree with Steve's observations, but you also need to consider crewing and workflow.
But the flipside of the flipside is that if the mixer has good limiters, you can use those and turn off the camera's AGC, and be more confident your levels will be okay. And that's beneficial to a one man band who really can't change levels a lot.
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Old October 28th, 2007, 10:34 PM   #25
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I'm with Peter on this one. A good limiter in a good mixer is a lifesaver.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old October 28th, 2007, 10:36 PM   #26
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...if the mixer has good limiters, you can use those and turn off the camera's AGC... And that's beneficial to a one man band who really can't change levels a lot.
Can't disagree, I guess. AGC is almost always to be avoided, and no prosumer cams I'm aware of offer limiting.

When I'm going out solo, I use manual gain, no mixer, and manage to trim levels as needed. A lot of what I do is sit-down interviews using wired or wireless lavs, so, once I find good level the gain may only be touched once or twice more. And I do keep an eye on it, which I can do in the viewfinder/lcd - a mixer would mean taking my attention away from the camera.

For me, the limiter provided by a mixer is certainly a nice-to-have feature, but not worth juggling another piece of equipment & wires... when going solo.

Last edited by Seth Bloombaum; October 29th, 2007 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Typos!
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Old October 29th, 2007, 07:19 AM   #27
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Yes, you're right. You can get better sound with a 2-person crew.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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