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Old November 19th, 2007, 01:56 AM   #16
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Ty,

I've read your reviews of the MKH-60 and MKH-418S. It seems like I could use these in a static dual boom setup (I imagine only using the mid capsule signal of the 418S).

If I'm going to buy a second boom mic, I'd like to get one that might offer something that the 60 doesn't, rather than pay $1.4K for the identical mic.

Do you think the sounds of the 60 and 418S will match reasonably well? Maybe use the 418 for the deeper voice, since it seems to have a little more bottom and the 60 for the higher voice?

P.S. I intend to lav as well, which is why I went for the four track recorder. Thanks for your positive encouragement. :)
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Old November 19th, 2007, 04:55 AM   #17
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There is one good reason for using the boom mic's as you suggest... it will be a good learning experience.

I nearly always find the sound of my MKH60 a bit weird inside. It is a great mic in the right application though. From what I've heard the 418 is essentially a 416 and that is even less forgiving indoors. If you are in a large dead space and you only want tight shots without much above head height you may even get a natural sound from them.

Better to concentrate on getting a pair or more of decent lavs such as Sennheiser MKH2.4 gold or Sony ECM77 and make sure they are done right. After all if you are operating the camera as well you will have a lot to get right.

Maybe it is best not to experiment too much as the shotguns will probably only teach you how they can sound 'wrong'.
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Old November 19th, 2007, 05:43 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
Ty,

I've read your reviews of the MKH-60 and MKH-418S. It seems like I could use these in a static dual boom setup (I imagine only using the mid capsule signal of the 418S).

If I'm going to buy a second boom mic, I'd like to get one that might offer something that the 60 doesn't, rather than pay $1.4K for the identical mic.

Do you think the sounds of the 60 and 418S will match reasonably well? Maybe use the 418 for the deeper voice, since it seems to have a little more bottom and the 60 for the higher voice?

P.S. I intend to lav as well, which is why I went for the four track recorder. Thanks for your positive encouragement. :)
Thanks Peter, you'll really like having the four tracks. If you got the 744T, it supports poly wav files. That means you'll see one icon on the hard drive that has all four synchronized tracks in side. Drag and drop and you're done. FCP imports the file and plops it down on four new tracks automatically; very sweet.

Jimmy Tuffrey's comment about learning what's wrong about shotguns inside or in ANY reflective space is right on. For that job, you want a hyper or super cardioid mic. The top mic in that category is the Schoeps cmc641. I own two. I use them inside and outside. They sound great. These are the mics you'll see on feature film sets. Not cheap, but exceptional. I just used my pair yesterday as drum overheads during a music recording session. Also get the B5D pop filter.

The Schoeps CMIT shotgun is also a major contender. It sounds very much like the CMC641, so you can switch from CMC641 to CMIT without a change in sound. It's more natural sounding (less aggressive) than a 416 or 418.

If you really need something different in shotguns there's the Sanken CS-3e and CSS-5 (mono and stereo respectively). The CS-3e is very tight for a shotgun (requiring more careful booming) and does better than most shotguns in reflective environments. Both CS-3e and CSS-5 are similar in sound. The have less low end and don't have the peak of the 416 or 418.

Not knocking the Sennheisers. They are just different. I own a 416 and an 816.

Check the reviews on my site.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old November 19th, 2007, 07:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Tuffrey View Post
...
Better to concentrate on getting a pair or more of decent lavs such as Sennheiser MKH2.4 gold or Sony ECM77 and make sure they are done right. After all if you are operating the camera as well you will have a lot to get right.
...
Do you like these lavs more than the Countryman B6? Thanks much to all.

Last edited by Peter Moretti; November 19th, 2007 at 08:27 PM.
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Old November 27th, 2007, 02:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
...
Jimmy Tuffrey's comment about learning what's wrong about shotguns inside or in ANY reflective space is right on. For that job, you want a hyper or super cardioid mic. The top mic in that category is the Schoeps cmc641. I own two. I use them inside and outside. They sound great. These are the mics you'll see on feature film sets. Not cheap, but exceptional. I just used my pair yesterday as drum overheads during a music recording session. Also get the B5D pop filter.
...
So for a two person interview, you'd recommend laving each and using two booms. Does it make sense to purchase the matched stereo set of the CMC6-MK41's?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...tereo_Set.html

What about the situation when a group of about eight people are sittting on a couch and the floor around it? Will setting two CMC641's on boom stands pretty far apart give enough coverage to favorably record such a group?

Thanks again!
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Old November 27th, 2007, 06:04 PM   #21
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Peter Moretti;782947]So for a two person interview, you'd recommend laving each and using two booms. Does it make sense to purchase the matched stereo set of the CMC6-MK41's?

--No, not unless you recorded to four separate channels. That's too many mics for two channels. You 'll get all sorts of phase wash. For two people on camera, I'd either use two lavs, split tracked -- two locked down booms (if the talkers don't move around much) or one boom op covering both people.

What about the situation when a group of about eight people are sittting on a couch and the floor around it? Will setting two CMC641's on boom stands pretty far apart give enough coverage to favorably record such a group?
Thanks again!

--No they won't.
--How are you going to cover that many people with cameras?
Can you break the shot to go back and get someone's missed comment?
If so, you can do it with one camera and one boom op.
If not, you'll need two cameras and two boom ops who can keep out of each others way.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old November 27th, 2007, 07:22 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
So for a two person interview, you'd recommend laving each and using two booms. Does it make sense to purchase the matched stereo set of the CMC6-MK41's?

--No, not unless you recorded to four separate channels. That's too many mics for two channels. You 'll get all sorts of phase wash. For two people on camera, I'd either use two lavs, split tracked -- two locked down booms (if the talkers don't move around much) or one boom op covering both people.
Actually, I was expecting to record to four separate channels (as a 744T and 302 are on their way).
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Old November 27th, 2007, 07:28 PM   #23
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Why bother to use lavs and booms on each. Do it once right.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old November 27th, 2007, 07:41 PM   #24
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Just using dumb logic: if it's best to lav and boom in a one person interview, then I figured it's probably a good idea to lav and boom both people in a two person interview.
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Old November 27th, 2007, 07:49 PM   #25
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It's not necessarily "best" to boom and lav a single interview. Pick the best one and go with it.

Most of the time I pick one and go with it.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old November 27th, 2007, 09:05 PM   #26
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Do you like these lavs more than the Countryman B6? Thanks much to all.
I mentioned them as they the most common decent lav mic's I come across. Good choice for general TV presenters where the mic is clipped on to wardrobe.

I do a have a countryman but I never use it as it looks a right state and is on the wrong plug.

Personnally for interview situations I don't get hung up on the mic model. As long as it is of a certain standard or not too far below, then it should do the job satisfactorily.

If you want velvet then you use a boom. Say if your doing a special interview with the prime minister or someone and the production requires a grand sound.

Or boom if your doing vox pops and your subjects are coming and going fast and it is the easy way to get them with the least bother.

Doing sound isn't always about the best quality. Sometimes it's not appropriate.

But if everyones sitting down and you want to stay out of the way then the lav's your man for general work.

If it's a radio then the transmitter/receiver combination will have at least as much say over the sound quality as the actual mic. I have two different radios both with ECM77's on and they sound totally different due to the electronics involved.
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Old November 28th, 2007, 01:25 PM   #27
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Why bother to use lavs and booms on each. Do it once right.

Regards,

Ty Ford
If I'm going to go w/ two boom mic on stands, would you recommmend getting the match stereo set of CMC641's?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...tereo_Set.html
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Old November 28th, 2007, 02:00 PM   #28
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Peter,

Schoeps makes some pretty tightly speced mics. Sure, matching might help you later.

Regards,

Ty
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