Nagra IV help - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 21st, 2007, 09:26 AM   #16
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,206
Petri,

Thanks much. I think you may have hit it on the head in your comment that perhaps what is messing things up is the filtering and that this "messing up" would be less at 96kHz oversample.

In a a way (although technically probably inaccurate) what I think this tells me is that the benefit of oversampling and (perhaps) unnecessary bit depth is that it adds "headroom" that can get consumed by other components in the total system without eating into the final result to the point where it's noticed.

The other thing I think occurs to me on reading your post is that maybe the reason we like our new tube CD player so much is less about the tubes and more about the fact that it's high-end enough that it has better components.

I also like the image of holding a speaker like a violin. Makes my jaw ache to think of it. But it is true that people who play instruments "hear" them differently than people who don't.

Having said all that, why do you think the DAT sample rate went to 48kHz and the DVD to 96kHz. Must be a reason beyond simply that they could do it.

And what do you think of the latest wave of 192kHz recorders? Why are they doing it if there's no benefit? Just to win a marketing numbers game? If so I guess we'd better get ready for the 32 bit 1024kHz "Boom" H 64 pocket recorder with integrated $2.00 microphones
Jim Andrada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2007, 10:29 AM   #17
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Andrada View Post
And what do you think of the latest wave of 192kHz recorders? Why are they doing it if there's no benefit? Just to win a marketing numbers game? If so I guess we'd better get ready for the 32 bit 1024kHz "Boom" H 64 pocket recorder with integrated $2.00 microphones
I think 192K is way overkill for 99.9% of the recordings. There are Foley artist who want to record at 192 kHz because they want to playback at 48K or some different rate and produce some odd sounds, but that's not the norm. I was involved in a blind test where we took identical 16-bit and 24-bit recordings done at various sampling rates and in the 44.1 to 96 kHz range, nobody could consistently identify the difference. However, most were able to distinguish the 16-bit from 24-bit recordings. However, the trend seems to be going the other way, with the iPod and other similar devices. The sound quality only has to be OK for the general public. Outside the classical music genre, I don't think any label is doing SACD or DVD-A discs on a major scale.

As far as the devices go, equipment is only as good as the chain. Put a generic $10.00 mic on the end of a $15,000 Cantar and you still end up with a cheap low quality sounding recording. But I do think manufacturers are trying to one-up each other in the spec game.

Wayne
__________________
Mics: KMR 82 i, NTG-1, MKH418S, MKH8040, SR77, QTC1, QTC40, SR30
Recorder: Zaxcom Deva 5.8 & MIX-12. Wireless: TRX900 stereo, Lectro 411
Wayne Brissette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2007, 11:50 AM   #18
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Andrada View Post
Having said all that, why do you think the DAT sample rate went to 48kHz and the DVD to 96kHz. Must be a reason beyond simply that they could do it.
Very interesting discussion.

DAT is a dual standard, 44.1 and 48. I think the DAT sample rate went to 48KHz to accomodate working in the video world as well as the audio world. Then, there is the center-stripe longitudinal timecode channel as an option, also for working with film/video.

Regarding 96KHz DVD, I suspect that Sony had some influence in that standard, as they developed the SACD format (Super-Audio CD). Don't forget that every standards-compliant DVD player out there also plays audio-CD and MPEG1 "VCD". I think Sony saw that there might be an opportunity to make money with the SACD format in the audiophile market, and that's why we have up to 24/96 PCM in the DVD playback device standard.
Seth Bloombaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 21st, 2007, 02:02 PM   #19
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,206
Yeah, I can convince myself (probably erroneously) that 96k/24 is better than 44.1k/16, but there's no way I can figure out why I'd go to 192kHz

And if I were honest with myself I might even think that 48k/24 was every bit as good as 96k/24 for any practical use.

And I do classical music.
Jim Andrada is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:53 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network