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Old December 6th, 2007, 11:30 PM   #16
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Just a quick "dummy check". Many orchestras and/or facilities have audio recording setups as a standard part of the performance. Is there any chance you can simply plug-in to someone who is doing the audio recording separately?
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Old December 7th, 2007, 11:54 AM   #17
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I wish! I'm afraid not. I will be doing such a concert in late December, which would be another reason to buy an XLR adapter.

I got a free $150 gift card from B&H with my latest purchase there. I could buy a Rode Videomic from them for about $150 and be done with it.

If I go XLR, that means a $250 beachtek device w/ phantom, plus a $200+ mic from B&H...
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Old December 7th, 2007, 02:26 PM   #18
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Take a look. AT897, Rode SM3 shockmount, Beachtek DXA-2s

http://photos.imageevent.com/24peter...e/IMG_3978.JPG

THAT would be a sweet setup. But I'd save a ton of money by just getting a Rode VideoMic.
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Old December 7th, 2007, 02:43 PM   #19
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The key to good sound is getting the mic as close to the source as possible. Plan for your location. A cheap mic and a long cable is better than a expensive mic on camera any day. A shotgun mic on a mic stand, pointed at the musicians, at the front of the hall is unobtrusive and far better solution than any mic on camera.
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Old December 7th, 2007, 06:58 PM   #20
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I have a lot of XLR gear but I love the Rode VideoMic. I have several. But it's not the right choice for an indoor concert. Not that it would sound bad. If you had it on your camera at the back of the auditorium you'd get audio that sounds pretty decent--that is, until you compared it to a really good recording of the same event.

For orchestra coverage you want a stereo mic close to the stage. So if your camera position is in the back you either have to run cable or use a recorder at the mic position. If you run cable, it needs to be balanced. You'd be talking something like the Audio Technica AT825 mic, and two standard 3-pin XLR cables running back to the two inputs of something like a Beachtek or Sign Video adapter at the camera. The adapter could be one with or without phantom power because the AT825 can operate with phantom or its own AA battery. An alternative to two 3-pin cables is one 5-pin cable. The AT825 comes with a 16 foot long 5-pin to two 3-pin adapter to use at the mic or at the camera depending on how you want to do the run. Add a pair of headphones and you'll look like a pro. This will cost about $700. The sound would be hard to beat without going well over $1000. But you wouldn't have a camera mountable mic to use for other things.

You might be happy with a $200 Zoom H2 digital recorder on a stand at the front. It has its own stereo mics, or you can plug a better mic into it, or you can record from a sound board with it. At that price you could also afford have a Rode VideoMic going at the cam position as a backup. Or a Rode Stereo VideoMic plugged into the Zoom up front. As I said the Zoom's own mics might be good enough. Using the RSVM would probably be as good as the AT825 setup.

Bottom line: For the most optimal combination of low price, good sound, convenience and versatility, I'd personally go for something like the Zoom H2 and a Rode VideoMic.
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Old December 8th, 2007, 01:51 PM   #21
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Thanks David, that's great advice. I may just use a Rode VideoMic- last time I used the in-camera one microphone, so I'm sure that would already be a huge improvement. But I may consider using the Zoom H2 in the future.
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Old December 9th, 2007, 05:13 AM   #22
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You can always plug in to the live mix. Of course it's not the same but it really depends on what you're going for.

I would use an M/S mic.

If it's just for one shoot then rent a mic dude. It'll be $35-$50.
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Old December 9th, 2007, 04:18 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Dressner View Post
Thanks Guy. Does the DXA-2 have phantom power? I know beachtek makes one that does have that. I think it may be worth it.
No it doesn't. I would NOT recommend buying a BeachTek unit with phantom power, as you will likely still need a good mic pre-amp.

I recommend going with self-powered mics and the BeachTek, or buy a high quality mic pre-amp like the Sound Devices MM-1 or MixPre to both power and amplify your mics, and a passive BeachTek unit like the DXA-2s to adapt the XLR output to your camera.
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Old December 9th, 2007, 05:23 PM   #24
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ditto. Except you won't need the Beachtek if you have a mixpre and the right output cables.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old December 13th, 2007, 04:54 AM   #25
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I'm going tonite to experiment on a bluegrass band at a place called the Redlight Cafe in Atl. I am going to use my HV20 on a tripod, with my Rode SVM on a seperate tripod connected with a Hosa 25 ft cable. I remember Ty saying something about balanced/unbalanced when you use a cable, but for tonight it's my only choice. I just ordered his book online a few mins ago. My question is ... would it be best to set the mic up in front of a speaker or set it up within 4 to 6 ft of the main microphone? Tks for ur thoughts...bob
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Old December 13th, 2007, 05:05 AM   #26
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I'm going tonite to experiment on a bluegrass band at a place called the Redlight Cafe in Atl. I am going to use my HV20 on a tripod, with my Rode SVM on a seperate tripod connected with a Hosa 25 ft cable. I remember Ty saying something about balanced/unbalanced when you use a cable, but for tonight it's my only choice. I just ordered his book online a few mins ago. My question is ... would it be best to set the mic up in front of a speaker or set it up within 4 to 6 ft of the main microphone? Tks for ur thoughts...bob

If you mic a PA speaker all the advantages of a stereo mic will go out the window since identical signal will be recorded to both left and right channels. I'd try to mic the band and not the PA. Of course, with this sort of recording you're actually micing the room so I'd try to get there for the sound checks before the gig and experiment to see where the mic should go for best overall results.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 05:29 AM   #27
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Oh yeah, I forgot about that. They're using 3 condenser mics fairly close together, so that x/y configuration should do fairly well. Tks Steve...bob
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Old December 13th, 2007, 07:39 AM   #28
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Hi Bob,

And thanks for ordering the book.

Getting good audio with live music in which a PA system is used is always a balancing act.

The person mixing FOH (front of house) sound is combining the natural acoustics of the instruments, instrument amps and singers in the room with the amplified sound coming from mics and direct inputs to the mixer and through the PA. That mix, by itself, will be too dry and empty.

It's pretty impossible to get a decent mix with either room mics or board feed. You need both to get even close. When you see big time concert DVDs (or broadcasts), they use room mics and every instrument and voice goes to a completely different mixer than the FOH (front of house). That's why the Eagles concert DVD sound so good.

Budgetary restraints prevent that for most of us. So the best we can do is use camera mics (if they are anywhere near in a good place) with a board feed. Even then, the mix may be a bit funky, but it probably won't suck.

I shot Karyn Oliver (www.karynoliver.com) and her band for one of her CD release concerts.

Here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaZg8yPs9aY
I combined a board mix with camera mic.

Here (not my shoot), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1bgtJGktyo
someone used just camera mic.

I may be biased, but I prefer my mix.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old December 13th, 2007, 08:20 PM   #29
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I think Ty has made his point really well. Ty's mix is nicely intimate and balanced.

The best way to go, short of a seperate mix, is a board feed and your own mic.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 04:52 PM   #30
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building my own adapter

I just bought a Rode Stereo Videomic for my JVC GY-HD200, but all of the available 3.5mm - XLR adapters use standard XLR connectors. I would like to build an adapter that uses right-angle XLR connectors to reduce stress on the cabling when the camera is in the cam bag. Anyone know where I can find a wiring diagram for 3.5mm stereo to dual XLR?
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