Large diaphragm mics for documentary shoot? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 5th, 2007, 06:48 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 539
Large diaphragm mics for documentary shoot?

Hey guys, I could really use your experience/expertise.

I'm about to shoot a documentary, and intend to use two ECM77B lavalier microphones, and a Rode NT3 for the indoor/booming situations.

My question is this, I'm considering not using the NT3 and suggesting that we rent an Audio Technica 4053 or, obviously the superior Schoeps CMC641 (ideal).

However, my friend already owns a bunch of great studio mics, and I'm not sure if we should be trying to use those...Is there a downside to consider?

I assumed they would be heavier, since they are physically larger, but they don't really seem to be any heavier than the NT3 I have (though even that is a tad heavy).

I read in another thread that they may not have as much reach, but if we're booming above the subject, wouldn't it be okay? I guess the only concern is that they would be terrible for on-camera mounting, but you could say that's worse for any mic.

The specific mics in question would be the AKG414 or the AKGC451 EB.

Now, I know that cardioid wouldn't be the best pattern and that if we're shooting indoors a hypercardioid would be more practical....however, I'd like to stay away from that aspect of it for now, and just evaluate the pros/cons of these types of mics outside the studio (since we all agree they're great for VO/dubbing mostly).
Craig Irving is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 6th, 2007, 05:35 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Size, weight, lack of reach, and lack of directionality all say those studio mics would be a poor choice for location dialog. And have you actually put the NT3 in a shock mount out on the end of a 12 foot lever arm and tried to hold it over your head by the other end of the boom, keeping the boom horizontal and the mic precisely aimed for, say, 5 minutes to 10 minutes, without letting the mic dip or sway? (Booming for dialog is not a static mic stand with a horizontal arm.) If your arms are capable of that over and over through the workday I want you on MY side whenever I have to venture down a dark Toronto alley :)
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 7th, 2007, 10:11 PM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1,158
use the right tool for the job. if you studio pal has some mic's he uses for drum overheads such as senn K184, SCX-1, even a Oktava 012, or AT something pencil condenser, it will all work ok.if you got the bux, CMC641. Big studio mics are way too heavy for boom polling. They are made for close micing. That said, I did do a shot with a big studio condenser, but it was right in the shot as _part_ of the shot. looked cool so I got away with it just fine. don't think thats your case.

Steve Oakley
Steve Oakley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2007, 12:24 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bruce Pennisula, Canada
Posts: 316
I second all of what's been mentioned.

Large diaphram condensers need pretty close sound sources. Generally no more than a maximum of 2' distance. Bass response on these mics rolls off quickly. You could certainly use any mic and get a signal but the warm rich sound a good quality large diaphram condenser would give used in it's typical application will not be apparent when boomed above and away from your source. It will sound thin and noisy picking up much of the environment at the same level as your source signal.

And heavy.....fugetabuotit.
James Hooey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2007, 05:31 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Hooey View Post
I second all of what's been mentioned.

Large diaphram condensers need pretty close sound sources. Generally no more than a maximum of 2' distance. Bass response on these mics rolls off quickly. ...And heavy.....fugetabuotit.
I would have said even closer that that for good speech recording. With a typical 1" side-address cardioid studio mic I think somewhere around 6" to 8" from the mouth as the starting point for spoken word and singing. 2 feet would be suitable for micing instruments like saxophones, etc.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2007, 11:52 AM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Irving View Post
Now, I know that cardioid wouldn't be the best pattern and that if we're shooting indoors a hypercardioid would be more practical....however, I'd like to stay away from that aspect of it for now, and just evaluate the pros/cons of these types of mics outside the studio (since we all agree they're great for VO/dubbing mostly).
You contradicted yourself. If "we all agree" they're for VO/dubbing then why are we even having this discussion?

If you're really dead set on using these mics then go ahead. Then post about what happened.
Anna Harmon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2007, 05:23 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD USA
Posts: 2,323
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Irving View Post
The specific mics in question would be the AKG414 or the AKGC451 EB.
Bad mics for capturing dialog on a set.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Ty Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 8th, 2007, 05:31 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Iowa City, Iowa
Posts: 670
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anna Harmon View Post
You contradicted yourself. If "we all agree" they're for VO/dubbing then why are we even having this discussion?

If you're really dead set on using these mics then go ahead. Then post about what happened.
Agreed. Would also like to see a still of your sound op with the AKG414 hanging off the end of a boom pole.
__________________
youtube.com/benhillmedia
linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia
Benjamin Hill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 9th, 2007, 03:01 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Bruce Pennisula, Canada
Posts: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House View Post
I would have said even closer that that for good speech recording. With a typical 1" side-address cardioid studio mic I think somewhere around 6" to 8" from the mouth as the starting point for spoken word and singing. 2 feet would be suitable for micing instruments like saxophones, etc.
Yes, closer is better particularly with voice. I probably overstated the range a bit. Considering you typically have a pop filter in front of a large diaphram condenser about 3 or 4 inches off the mic, and the talent is very close again to that pop filter, the range is in that 6-8" range more often than not.
James Hooey is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:25 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network