need good speakers for editing at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 8th, 2008, 12:57 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warwick, Rhode Island
Posts: 740
need good speakers for editing

Ok so I bought my Canon XH-A1, Power Mac to edit, and have no speakers aside the one monitor ones which sound like crap. I need good affordable speakers that will reflect what the films should sound like in general. Right now with what I have I wouldn`t be able to tell if something was too quiet, too noisy, anything. They are horrible. I have Sennheiser headphones but they tens to ALWAYS sound like a movie theater, so again I feel thats a misleading way to edit the audio since it won`t sound anything like that on a tv.
__________________
Cinematography Site
Nathan Quattrini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 8th, 2008, 01:47 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Quattrini View Post
Ok so I bought my Canon XH-A1, Power Mac to edit, and have no speakers aside the one monitor ones which sound like crap. I need good affordable speakers that will reflect what the films should sound like in general. Right now with what I have I wouldn`t be able to tell if something was too quiet, too noisy, anything. They are horrible. I have Sennheiser headphones but they tens to ALWAYS sound like a movie theater, so again I feel thats a misleading way to edit the audio since it won`t sound anything like that on a tv.

First thing is to decide on a realistic budget. Proper audio monitors will start in the $500 a pair range and from there the sky's the limit, almost literally. Accuracy of reproduction is the key you're looking for - you have to know what it really sounds like. Speakers designed for games or recreational music listening intentionally are designed to sound impressive and mask problems in the source sound, exactly the opposite of what you need in the editing suite. Headphones are good for checking sound for noises, etc, but they too introduce their own colourations so are less than ideal for editing and mixing.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008, 02:43 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Warwick, Rhode Island
Posts: 740
Can`t be more than $100, I don`t need pro brand name equipment, just some that work well for editing
__________________
Cinematography Site
Nathan Quattrini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008, 02:48 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Quattrini View Post
Can`t be more than $100, I don`t need pro brand name equipment, just some that work well for editing
I would look into getting some of the M-Audio Studio Pro 3 speakers. I believe they're priced right at $100. These will give you pretty good reference audio.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--MDOSP3 (just for an idea of price and avail.)
Nick Vaughan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008, 04:33 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Quattrini View Post
Can`t be more than $100, I don`t need pro brand name equipment, just some that work well for editing
"Under $100" and "work well for editing" are pretty much mutually exclusive. I'm sorry, but that's the reality you need to deal with. Sure, you'll be able to hear your tracks on a pair of cheap speaks but really being able to make editing and mixing decisions is going to be very very difficult because you won't be hearing what is really there. Editing is much more than just a matter of finding where a sound starts and stops. Of course, if all you're doing is personal hobby projects and maybe the occasional post to YouTube, you might not actually need anything more than that and it's perfectly okay if that's what you want to do, but if you aspire to more serious work you're going to have to bite the bullet sooner or later. I bought my monitors about 6 months ago after over a year of looking, listening, and saving and during that whole time, $500 for a pair was the rock bottom minimum entry level I found that had any potential at all for serious use (and trust me, $500 is NOT the "brand name pro" level of gear either - take a look at pricing for Genlec or DynAudio if you want to experience a bit of sticker shock). I strongly suggest you start thinking about what you're trying to accomplish and let that define your needs.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008, 05:35 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House View Post
"Under $100" and "work well for editing" are pretty much mutually exclusive. I'm sorry, but that's the reality you need to deal with. Sure, you'll be able to hear your tracks on a pair of cheap speaks but really being able to make editing and mixing decisions is going to be very very difficult because you won't be hearing what is really there. Editing is much more than just a matter of finding where a sound starts and stops. Of course, if all you're doing is personal hobby projects and maybe the occasional post to YouTube, you might not actually need anything more than that and it's perfectly okay if that's what you want to do, but if you aspire to more serious work you're going to have to bite the bullet sooner or later. I bought my monitors about 6 months ago after over a year of looking, listening, and saving and during that whole time, $500 for a pair was the rock bottom minimum entry level I found that had any potential at all for serious use (and trust me, $500 is NOT the "brand name pro" level of gear either - take a look at pricing for Genlec or DynAudio if you want to experience a bit of sticker shock). I strongly suggest you start thinking about what you're trying to accomplish and let that define your needs.
I think in comparison to the built in speakers on his monitor, he can afford to spend $100 and feel alright about the audio he's getting.
Nick Vaughan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008, 06:31 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Vaughan View Post
I think in comparison to the built in speakers on his monitor, he can afford to spend $100 and feel alright about the audio he's getting.

Almost certainly true - the question is, is it good enough to do the job required? It'll certainly play his sounds, but what then? Will it do it better
enough that he can actually hear enough that it'll make any difference in the work he turns out? While it's certainly true that buying expensive is no guarantee of quality - I've seen simple RCA cables offered that cost over 10 grand for a 3 foot pair, for crying out loud! Incredibly stupid, almost beyond belief! - there are very good reasons that the gear used by working pros doesn't come from the Walmart audio department,
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008, 06:33 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York City
Posts: 523
I was thinking a better set of used monitors might make sense. If not abused, speakers will last a good long time. Look 'em over for cosmetics and that will probably tell you about how the owner treated them. Give 'em a listen at quiet and loud levels and see how they sound.

Dunno what you can get for $100, but it might be worth looking into.

I have a set of M-Audio Studiophile LX-4 (two speaks and a sub) that I think went for $250. They are decent speakers--certainly not great. But they are 'monitors' in the sense that they don't color the sound like a comparable priced computer speakers probably would. They work for me. The el-cheapo m-audios listed above might just work out for him.
__________________
Andy Tejral
Railroad Videographer
Andy Tejral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2008, 11:12 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: El Cerrito, CA
Posts: 266
Nathan, I use a pair of Edirol MA-15D
(http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Monitors.html)
They're less than $200.
My main client (Swiss Public TV) never complained, so far...
Vasco Dones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 10th, 2008, 01:09 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: A Canadian in San Pedro de Atacama, Chile
Posts: 262
Cheap speakers are usually not going to give you anything approaching accurate sound. (Actually, most speakers don't approach accurate sound. I know, thats a pretty bold statement, but backed up by my knowledge of marketing hype, speaker design, and room acoustics.) One can get rare bargains in the speaker world and one of them happens to be the Omage AV-21. They are smallish speakers and produce pretty good sound considering their size. They cost $100 (plus shipping) a pair.

http://www.midsouthcable.com/OmageAV-Select.htm
or in Canada
http://www.master-vox.com , click on audio, find the Omage AV-21 in the list

I have purchased 8 pair in total, so I guess you could say I like them. I also tested them:
http://www.atsi.ca/omage/

Ignore the information about modified and stock. The latest iteration of these has been redesigned to the specs of the modified curves. The "A" and "C" speakers are different samples.

OK, so you have $100 speakers that match your prrice and sound requirement, but these are un-powered and would require an amp if you don't have one. I have never heard of or seen speakers that come close to being acceptable for less than this.

Any of the powered speakers worth having are going to be $200 plus IMHO, and even then I would much rather get the Omages and a cheap receiver or amp to work with before going the powered speaker route. I would consider this the bare minimum.
Les Nagy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2008, 01:07 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Vaughan View Post
I think in comparison to the built in speakers on his monitor, he can afford to spend $100 and feel alright about the audio he's getting.
But that's the problem, Nick. Feeling alright about the audio is great for listening, and maybe OK for editing, but really counterproductive for mixing. When mixing, it HAS to sound bad if the mix is bad, otherwise one cannot make good mixing decisions. And that is where speakers for listening are different from speakers for monitoring.

- Martin
__________________
Martin Pauly
Martin Pauly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2008, 08:13 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,513
Spend $95 on a pair of Sennheiser HD 280 Pro headphones. There are problems with mixing on cans, but at least you'd be buying some long-term keepers. You could also get the Sony 7506s, which are great in the field, but they aren't as flat as the Senns for mixing.

Then take the other $5 to a garage sale and look for some PC speakers with a subwoofer. And turn the subwoofer down a bit lower than where you think it should be.

That way you've only burned $5 on temporary gear, rather than the whole 100 bucks.
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2008, 09:16 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Tromsoe Norway
Posts: 28
I must say that I agree with Jon. Instead of spending 100$ on cheap speakers I would go for the Headphone route. The sound in headphones will not be as good as decent speakers, are colored, and will cause some fatigue if you spend long days with them.

But, you will probably need some headphones anyway to get good sound on the camera. So this way you can do both for just 100$ and even continue using them when upgrading to serious monitors.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Headphone.html


Add a pair of softies and be able to work even longer hours.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ie_Earpad.html

Just ordered 2 set of these in addition to our already widely used HD 25's.
Ronny Hofsoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2008, 10:22 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: chicago
Posts: 434
Another FYI -- the Sony V6 is the same headphone as the 7506 at $30 less... The main difference is the gold connector on the 7506.
Ben Syverson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2008, 03:13 AM   #15
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Makati, Metro Manila
Posts: 2,706
Images: 32
For US$100 you could pick up a pair of Roland MA-8 or Edirol MA-7A stereo micro monitors.

I got by with US$100 speakers until I could step up to the Mackie HR824MK2 series. It's not a bad way to go if you're on a budget and need something right now. And anyway, if you really care about your audio, you'll be testing it on all kinds of crappy speakers to make sure it plays decently on anything your customer/audience might throw at it. It's a low budget method, but then that's what you do if you're looking at US$100 monitors.

Not a big fan of headphones they'll fake you out when you least expect it. Move your audio into a regular consumer environment and all of a sudden all that beautiful nuanced sound you heard in the earphones goes out the window. For me, I prefer the low end monitors, and testing on different kinds of equipment.
__________________
"Ultimately, the most extraordinary thing, in a frame, is a human being." - Martin Scorsese
Michael Wisniewski is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:56 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network