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Old February 15th, 2008, 03:27 PM   #1
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which portable recorder with timecode?

Looking for a portable recording solution that supports timecode for video use.

How much do I need to spend? I love the Sony PCM D50, but that doesn't support timecodes.

thank you
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Old February 15th, 2008, 03:42 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Deniz Ahmet View Post
Looking for a portable recording solution that supports timecode for video use.

How much do I need to spend? I love the Sony PCM D50, but that doesn't support timecodes.
Unfortunately to get timecode, you have to spend more than I bet you're willing to spend. Some lower end models include the Sound Devices 702T, 744T, Edirol R-4 Pro, and Tascam HDP2 recorders. I'm sure I missed a couple, but these are all 2 and 4 channel recorders with timecode. Once you step beyond 4 channels, time code is pretty much a given (and the price goes up along with the additional tracks you get).

Wayne
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Old February 15th, 2008, 03:52 PM   #3
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Unfortunately to get timecode, you have to spend more than I bet you're willing to spend. Some lower end models include the Sound Devices 702T, 744T, Edirol R-4 Pro, and Tascam HDP2 recorders. I'm sure I missed a couple, but these are all 2 and 4 channel recorders with timecode. Once you step beyond 4 channels, time code is pretty much a given (and the price goes up along with the additional tracks you get).

Wayne


Yes that's a ton of money. I assume it's generally not to hard to sync up with video in post - any tips?!
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Old February 15th, 2008, 04:27 PM   #4
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Yes that's a ton of money. I assume it's generally not to hard to sync up with video in post - any tips?!
use a slate and sync the clapper with the audio. That's how it was done long before timecode came into the picture.

Wayne
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Old February 15th, 2008, 04:30 PM   #5
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Yes that's a ton of money. I assume it's generally not to hard to sync up with video in post - any tips?!
There was a post somewhere recently about a method where one would precisely measure the time length of the approximately 1hour audio, and of the approx 1hour video (from and to same claps/slates), then divide these lengths to obtain a factor, then manually input that factor as a multiplying factor in a certain audio processing software tool. You'd do it once as a 'calibration' for the camera-recorder pair and it would stay so for every other recording you'd do.

I think I've also read something about outputting the timecode from the camera to one audio channel of the recorder... not sure how that works.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 04:53 PM   #6
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...
I think I've also read something about outputting the timecode from the camera to one audio channel of the recorder... not sure how that works.

Problem is, most consumer and prosumer cameras don't have timecode input/output capabilties. I think you're thinking about a reverse scenario. Where the recorder has the ability to generate TC (the Sound Devices recorders previously mentioned can both read and generate/output timecode while the Tascam recorder can only read code from an external source but won't generate or output it) some people have sent code from the recorder to an audio track in the camera. I'm told, but don't have any first hand knowledge how to do it, that Avid can read the code from the audio track and generate a timeline from it so an incoming timestamped BWF audio file can align to that timeline. Since the audio track that is recorded in camera is already in sync with its video track, if the incoming audio file from the recorder is aligned to the timecode containing audio track, it will also automatically be aligned to the video track. I've also heard the FCP can do something like that as well but again I don't have any firsthand experience with it.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 05:13 PM   #7
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Problem is, most consumer and prosumer cameras don't have timecode input/output capabilties. I think you're thinking about a reverse scenario. ...
Right... the audio recorder would send timecode to audio track recorded on camera, and not viceversa (unless the camera can generate timecode like Canon XH-G1).

Maybe also to use a separate timecode generator (Denecke SB-T?) and send that time to an audio track on the audio recorder, and to an audio track on the camera recorder. And maybe some software tool to combine the outputs meaningfully...

I've always wondered why this A/V time synchronization is so expensive... the sync principles are so simple and in widespread use on so many devices... Internet sync is down to 10ms accuracy, etc.
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Old February 15th, 2008, 10:05 PM   #8
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Some lower end models include the Sound Devices 702T, 744T, .

Wayne
Oh dear and there was I thinking I couldn't afford high end and it turns out I can't afford the lower end...! Please don't even mention the high end.........

(Incidentally I have a pcm d50 on order.)
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Old February 16th, 2008, 03:58 AM   #9
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I've also heard the FCP can do something like that as well but again I don't have any firsthand experience with it.
You have to use some special software in order for Final Cut to recognize timecode on an audio channel. I forget the name of the software, and found out the hard way on an industrial shoot I did. I fed timecode to one channel, figured we had things in order, but then when it came time for post production, the post editor didn't have the software. However, the tried and true method of using the clapper to sync audio worked just fine.

Here is the software needed for Final Cut Pro:

FCP auxTC reader
http://www.videotoolshed.com/?page=products&pID=26

Wayne
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Last edited by Wayne Brissette; February 16th, 2008 at 06:13 AM. Reason: Added link to software
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Old February 16th, 2008, 04:03 AM   #10
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Please don't even mention the high end.........
But... the Cantar is such a unique and artful piece of equipment -- it makes the Deva look so utilitarian next to it... :)

Don't look up the prices... it would be like comparing a HVX200 price to that of the RED. However, the reality is you don't need the Deva or Cantar and if you don't need timecode there are a plethora of new small and affordable recorders out there.

Wayne
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Old February 26th, 2008, 04:04 AM   #11
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A slate works perfectly. Just roll sound, roll cameras, all point cams at the slate, do the slate and you are good to go.

In the edit, get all the video synced to that clap from the sound file(s) and you will be happy you saved money by buying a cheaper recorder.
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