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Old February 16th, 2008, 05:47 PM   #1
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What boom mics for inside rooms?

I've been learning here that directional mics are not that great for booming inside rooms because of reflections. I read that hypercaridoids are much better inside normal rooms.
My belief had been that the Sennheiser MKH 416 is one of the best booming mics (I even handled one once myself, outdoors, and it sounded great to my ears). Now what would be an equivalent for that on the hypercardioid side?

Please forgive me for asking stupid questions, but I don't intend to be a sound guy - but I'm forced to know something about it by the tv business. Well I'm not forced, they pretty much accept anything that is ok, but I'd like to deliver better ;)
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Old February 16th, 2008, 09:31 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Heiko Saele View Post
I've been learning here that directional mics are not that great for booming inside rooms because of reflections. I read that hypercaridoids are much better inside normal rooms.
My belief had been that the Sennheiser MKH 416 is one of the best booming mics (I even handled one once myself, outdoors, and it sounded great to my ears). Now what would be an equivalent for that on the hypercardioid side?

Please forgive me for asking stupid questions, but I don't intend to be a sound guy - but I'm forced to know something about it by the tv business. Well I'm not forced, they pretty much accept anything that is ok, but I'd like to deliver better ;)
Audio Technica 4053a
AKG Blueline SE300B/CK93
AKG ULS C480/CK63 combo
Sennheiser MKH 8050
Sennheiser MKH50
Neumann KM150
Schoeps CMC641
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Old February 17th, 2008, 03:32 AM   #3
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Audio Technica 4053a
AKG Blueline SE300B/CK93
AKG ULS C480/CK63 combo
Sennheiser MKH 8050
Sennheiser MKH50
Neumann KM150
Schoeps CMC641
I have the Audio Technica 4053a and the 4051a cartridge (or vice-viersa... the cartridge changes on the same mic).

The 4053a is a supercardioid
The 4051a is a cadioid, but some pros carry it because it works in rooms where every other mic gets echoes.

These mics sound good for a reasonable price. You can read elsewhere all the good things about the much more expensive mics, but these are realistic pro options.
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Old February 17th, 2008, 09:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiko Saele View Post
I've been learning here that directional mics are not that great for booming inside rooms because of reflections. I read that hypercaridoids are much better inside normal rooms.
My belief had been that the Sennheiser MKH 416 is one of the best booming mics (I even handled one once myself, outdoors, and it sounded great to my ears). Now what would be an equivalent for that on the hypercardioid side?

Please forgive me for asking stupid questions, but I don't intend to be a sound guy - but I'm forced to know something about it by the tv business. Well I'm not forced, they pretty much accept anything that is ok, but I'd like to deliver better ;)
I use the SENN 416 pretty much for everything, it does the job for me both indoors and out, and mic distance, placement, protection are a big factor whether recording with reflections or not. Absorption helps in that situation, but that depends on location too, empty room vs room with couches, sofas, beds, etc.

Other mics may be better for indoors, for me the 416 does it all. Sometimes i will use a planted mic on set for a backup sent to a seperate track, then you can add or subtract some of that lav effect.
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Old February 17th, 2008, 09:42 AM   #5
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I use the SENN 416 pretty much for everything, it does the job for me both indoors and out, ....

Other mics may be better for indoors, for me the 416 does it all. ...
Don't you find the tonal colouration of the off-axis reflections - that 'recorded in the bottom of a well' hollow sound - that so often accompanies a shotgun in normal, untreated interiors to be a problem or do you usually work in situations where that isn't an issue? Are you able to hang sound blankets to deaden the set, for example, so there are no reflections to deal with? Listening to Ty's examples on his site where he compares a 416 to a Schoeps 641 hyper, the difference in timbre is very apparent with the 'gun sounding 'ringy' and hollow while the hyper is far more immediate and natural sounding.
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Old February 17th, 2008, 11:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiko Saele View Post
I've been learning here that directional mics are not that great for booming inside rooms because of reflections. I read that hypercaridoids are much better inside normal rooms.
My belief had been that the Sennheiser MKH 416 is one of the best booming mics (I even handled one once myself, outdoors, and it sounded great to my ears). Now what would be an equivalent for that on the hypercardioid side?

Please forgive me for asking stupid questions, but I don't intend to be a sound guy - but I'm forced to know something about it by the tv business. Well I'm not forced, they pretty much accept anything that is ok, but I'd like to deliver better ;)
Supercardioid, hypercardioids and cardioids are directional mics. So are shotgun mics. The problem for shotguns, all of which have interference tubes, whether used inside or out, is that they are not so directional at middle and low frequencies. When used in a reflective environment they don't perform as well as a good hypercardioid.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old February 17th, 2008, 11:41 AM   #7
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I have the 418s, which is the 416 plus the mid side stereo. I will use it indoors as a stereo mic, but when you pull just the shotgun out, it really doesn't do well indoors. That's one of the reasons I purchased the 8040 recently. It's whole purpose is for indoor dialog, at least for me.

Both Ty and Dan have some great examples that people need to listen to and make up their own mind, but I don't think the 416, is as useful inside. I have used the 418S inside in interviews, but only as a stereo mic. I wouldn't hesitate to try a Sanken CS-1 or CS-3, but I still don't think either of those would be as useful indoors as a nice hyper-, super-, or plain cardioid for dialog.

Wayne
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