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Old February 16th, 2008, 05:48 PM   #1
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What boom mics for inside rooms?

I've been learning here that directional mics are not that great for booming inside rooms because of reflections. I read that hypercaridoids are much better inside normal rooms.
My belief had been that the Sennheiser MKH 416 is one of the best booming mics (I even handled one once myself, outdoors, and it sounded great to my ears). Now what would be an equivalent for that on the hypercardioid side?

Please forgive me for asking stupid questions, I don't intend to be a sound guy - but I'm forced to know something about it by the tv business. Well I'm not forced, they pretty much accept anything that is ok, but I'd like to deliver better ;)
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Old February 16th, 2008, 05:54 PM   #2
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Check out the Schoeps CMC-641 which is a CMC-6 with a MK41 capsule.

Be sure to get either a great sound isolating suspension, or the Schoeps Cut 1 to reduce handling noise from the boom.
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Old February 16th, 2008, 08:25 PM   #3
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ya a cut is necessary.
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Old February 16th, 2008, 09:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiko Saele View Post
I've been learning here that directional mics are not that great for booming inside rooms because of reflections. I read that hypercaridoids are much better inside normal rooms.
My belief had been that the Sennheiser MKH 416 is one of the best booming mics (I even handled one once myself, outdoors, and it sounded great to my ears). Now what would be an equivalent for that on the hypercardioid side?

Please forgive me for asking stupid questions, I don't intend to be a sound guy - but I'm forced to know something about it by the tv business. Well I'm not forced, they pretty much accept anything that is ok, but I'd like to deliver better ;)
Heiko:

If you haven't listened already, I included interior sound samples comparing shotguns, cardioids, supercardioids and hypercardioids in this article. You can listen and compare. If I was shooting mostly interiors, I would lean toward a cardioid variant mic.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage..._brockett.html

Best,

Dan
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Old February 16th, 2008, 09:32 PM   #5
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Heiko,

I would suggest looking at this message thread from early January:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...highlight=Hear

Dan Brockett's post (post #6 in that thread) linked to an article he wrote that compares a range of location mics (downloadable audio clips so you can listen for yourself!). I'm sure there's several more similarly useful posts findable with some diligent searching, but that one stuck in my mind!

Oktava MK-012 is pretty solid for a low cost option...I prefer the cardioid capsule on it for interior dialog, the cardioid capsule just sounds better to my ears than my hypercardioid capsule.

Schoeps CMC6 w/MK-41 capsule is good stuff, if budget permits, it's a great mic to have.

Mark
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Old February 18th, 2008, 02:01 AM   #6
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Heiko,

Okatva Mk-012 and BBG with WindJammer. It really a budget mic and gives performance matching the more expensive mics in the market.
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Old February 19th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #7
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Listening to the tests and talking with people, I would really consider the MKH-50 (or the new 8000 Series). It sounds much better than the 60 does inside.

BTW, I feel that the CS-3e is not a great compromise. It does sound better inside than the 60, but not as well as the 50 or the excellent (& $$) CMC641. So why buy it for interiors? Put another way, the 50's indoor benefit is greater than the CS-3e's outdoor benefit, IMHO.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 03:11 AM   #8
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mkh 50 is best value probably. Shoeps is cool too. 50 is better for extreme weather.

Here in UK the 50 is seen going cheaper second hand. Both great choices.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 12:40 PM   #9
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I think the 50 for male voices has too much of a "live" sound to it. almost like some compression going on, plus the extra bottom. too much like a car dealer spot.... unless of course you shoot car dealer spots :). on women ands kids though it could help bring presence to thinner voices.
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Old February 20th, 2008, 02:18 PM   #10
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I thought a hyper-cardioid was usually the best pattern for indoors, now it seems like all the mics being recommended are super-cardioids.

Does it depend on the mic, or is a super-cardioid generally a better performer than a hyper?
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Old February 20th, 2008, 04:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Irving View Post
I thought a hyper-cardioid was usually the best pattern for indoors, now it seems like all the mics being recommended are super-cardioids.

Does it depend on the mic, or is a super-cardioid generally a better performer than a hyper?
Hyper- and super- are very close to each other and there's a lot of overlap but I think the real issue here is things have been obscured by all of us talking about the PATTERN when we should have been talking about the specific physics of the how the pattern is achieved. The problem with shotguns indoors is not their supercardioid pattern per se, it's that they get their pattern from the interference tube design that also gives them their name. It's the way the sound waves arriving from on-axis and those arriving from off-axis interact with one another inside the interference tube that produces the colouration that is the problem using 'gun mics in a reflective environment. If you read the Schoeps literature they call their MK41 capsule "supercardioid" even though its often referred to a hyper by others and is one of the mics of choice for interiors. Sennheiser also calls their MKH416 a "supercardioid" but as an interference tube design they also label it "/lobar." It's those lobes (or the lack of them) that distinguish the pressure gradient mic like the Schoeps from the line gradient interference tube design like the Senn, even though as far as their front of the mic directivity pattern is concerned they're both technically supercardioids.
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Old February 21st, 2008, 04:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Oakley View Post
I think the 50 for male voices has too much of a "live" sound to it. almost like some compression going on, plus the extra bottom. too much like a car dealer spot.... unless of course you shoot car dealer spots :). on women ands kids though it could help bring presence to thinner voices.
You can select to roll-off the bottom with the 50. Sometimes it sounds at little jazzed up but with other clips it sounds fine. I agree, IMHO, that the Schoeps is the most neutral sounding.
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Old February 21st, 2008, 09:16 AM   #13
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But the 50 is less prone to handling noise
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Old February 23rd, 2008, 08:30 AM   #14
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Matched pair of MK12s?

Hi,

I see that a matched pair of MK12s is available with all three caps. Should I get these as a good start to my sound kit? Or is it overkill for my purposes?

I will be shooting what I call "Web Minis" (short serials to be put on the net) and the occaisional live music/theatre gigs (paid) for my friends/associates who want archive footage.


Thanks,
Carmen
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