Live Band Audio... Feed was too loud! at DVinfo.net

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Old March 2nd, 2008, 05:32 PM   #1
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Live Band Audio... Feed was too loud!

http://www.vimeo.com/746517

Please help me...
I recorded last night, and everything was too loud...
da** soundboard guy..
my fault, too, cause audio meter was fine, and the whole place was too loud that i couldn't tell if it was the speaks in the room or my camera.
i am editing with Premiere CS3, and i also have soundbooth.
Thank you ahead so much!

JJ
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 05:39 PM   #2
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Nothing you can do with that.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 05:51 PM   #3
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there is no such thing as "too loud" (I love loud music)
What you are hearing is clipping. if the signal is higher than a device can handle, the peaks get clipped off. this can be very damaging to P.A. equipment. It could have been clipped in the main soundboard, and your levels could have appeared perfectly normal. If the signal was in fact clipped at the main board, the busic would have sounded much cleaner and louder had he not clipped it.
I would suggest a couple of things. first off, there is no way to save that signal that would be cost effective (if its possible at all). next time, remember, you can not trust anyone but yourself. if you get a live feed from anyone, make sure you have your own backup. the cameras on board mic set on auto gain would have given you more usable audio than what you ended up with. possibly get a small standalone recorder like the H2.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 06:19 PM   #4
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you fed line level into the camera set a mic level. it will clip as you found out even if the levels seem ok. ALWAYS ask what you are being fed, and better to start at line level first on the camera side. if the levels are good at line, thats what you are getting. if you see nothing or very little, its mic level and change. don't worry, we've all made this beginner mistake, ONCE !

there's not much you can do to fix it either. there is supposed to be a VERY expensive plugin to protools that can declip, but I haven't found anyone around who has it.

and FWIW, music can and often is too loud. My first indicator sound is too loud ? pain in my left ear. I mean real pain. hearing damage from excessive sound is VERY REAL. talk to anyone who was worked in the concert / music / event biz for 10 or more years and you'll get a very different opinion about "it can't be too loud". If I am shooting a show, I now always bring 30db cut ear plugs, and also provide them for crew. once you damage your hearing, it can not be fixed.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 06:30 PM   #5
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your right, hearing damage can result from too much volume/exposure. but from a technical standpoint of recording, it was a matter of someone not having the levels set properly. its possible for that camera to record clean sound with the band playing at 140 db
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 08:22 PM   #6
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To answer that question you have to start from the top and follow it.

1. Did the mic capsule distort due to high SPL?
2. Did the audio distort after the mic capsule, but still in the mic electronics?
3. Did the audio distort at the preamp input or some intermediate stage?
4. Did the audio distort at the A/D converter?

Prolly left something out, but yes, I think with the right mic, pads and gear
you can record 140 dB SPL.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 08:24 PM   #7
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Another suggestion: monitor while recording with headphones. You'll hear real-time if the levels are too high and be able to correct live. You'll need a "real" pair of headphones, ones that fit over the ears (or maybe a set of earbuds that seal REAL well) so you can overcome the room sound and concentrate on the recorded sound levels. I bought a set of Sony MDR 7506 headphones on the strength of recommendations from the audio greybeards on this forum, and have never regretted it. Best $90 I ever spent for audio gear.

The real issue is that one person can't really do audio and video at the same time, particularly in a live venue.

Martin
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 08:30 PM   #8
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Good point on the headphones. I've recently switched from the Sony MDR 7506 to the new Audio-Technica ATH- M50.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 08:47 PM   #9
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thank you so much for all the feedback..
i will do my best based on what everyone told me.
i had apple earbud on which are pretty nice. but it was really loud, i mean *really* loud.
bass was so strong that the footage was shaking.
I have sony mdr-v300 which is pretty good.
the show was shot by me as a fan, not being paid or anything, so it was hard for me to find someone who would do just audio. it would definitely helpful, though.
thank you all.

jj

Last edited by J.J. Kim; March 2nd, 2008 at 09:38 PM.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 09:55 PM   #10
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On the headphones part... when doing live rock music, nearly all headphones don't work, you can't really hear anything worthwhile. The problem is they let in too much of the outside music, so then you play this game of trying to turn up your headphone output and then everything is just a mess...

There are a couple of solutions. First try using earphones designed for loud music such as the Etymotic 4 series : http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er4.aspx

Or you can go the route that Glen Trew put together in the Remote Audio HN-7506 headset: http://www.trewaudio.com/store/produ...cat=109&page=1

Either way, you're knocking out 40+ dB of outside noise and that's what you have to do to monitor in loud venues.

Wayne
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 10:10 PM   #11
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In ear monitors

There is also these, that are custom molded to your ears. However, they are quite pricey...

http://www.ultimateears.com/_ultimat...escription.php
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 02:27 PM   #12
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Nothing you can do about that sound... it's hopeless. Find some one that taped the concert and replace the sound.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 02:38 PM   #13
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Wow !! what distortion pedal has that guitarist got ?
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 03:39 PM   #14
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Man that stinks. I find a lot of the time the mixer doesn't even know the difference between mic and line level, let alone the difference between pro and consumer line level. They look at me like I have two heads when I ask. I usually assume it's line level, and if I find I'm not getting good levels with the gain cranked, try it at mic level. There's also the problem of distortion occuring further up the chain so even if you have everything matched it still sounds like crap.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 07:07 PM   #15
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I kinda gave a sign to soundboard guy to turn down mine , and he gave me his thumb up. i guess he didn't mean "good to go" instead "i will bring it up as much as possible so that it screw you over"
Tim Reynolds (the guitarist) has done mostly acoustic by himself, and it was the first time for me to film his new band that was created this year. I will what to do next time...
i am also thinking about getting a new set of headphone also.dont' know which one yet since i'm kinda tight on budget.
thank you all..

JJ
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