A solid LAV mic at DVinfo.net

Roshdi Alkadri · March 16th, 2008, 12:39 PM

hello everyone. I read quite a bit about this. Just wondering what is an excellent wired mic for interviews. I will be suspending my 416 from a mic stand above the subject and sending that to one channel while the other channel will be a lav.

1.I need to purchase a good solid LAV, i was leaning towards the Sony ECM series

2. I also read about many production companies using the 416 as a V.O. mic, would a LAV make it a better V.O. mic for narration

3. I was also thinking about the Sennheiser G2 wireless series for business meetings and events, what do you think?

as usual thank you

Craig Irving · March 16th, 2008, 01:57 PM

I have not done any extensive comparisons, but I have two ECM77Bs and I like them very much.

I've only compared them against the supplied lavs that come with the Sennheiser G2 kit and that wasn't really a fair comparison I suppose.

I ended up rigging the ECM77Bs up to the Sennheiser G2 kit with some adapters whenever I needed wireless.

Roshdi Alkadri · March 16th, 2008, 03:21 PM

what kind of adapters are we talking about?

Abe Dolinger · March 16th, 2008, 03:29 PM

Dan Brockett is coming out with an extensive lav guide pretty soon, I think. Until then, my two cents. . I've owned the following:

Tram TR50: good all-around mic, a bit too crisp in the upper range for me but works well esp. for male voices. Good mounting options.
PSC Millimic: kind of like a smaller, duller Tram. Not bad all-around but a bit dull.
Sennheiser MKE-2: Clear full sound, one of my favorites. Circular design makes it better for some mounting choices. Wide natural pickup also - I like to use this as a plant mic.
Countryman B6: Clear also, perhaps a bit blocky in the bass. Best I have for female voices. Very small and easy to hide, but the cable is somewhat noisy.

I have some COS-11Bp mics on the way, will update with my impressions.

A 416 can be a fine mic for VO in the right conditions. Lavs are generally more forgiving of a space due to their smaller pickup range.

I think the G2s are a great solution for those venues. As long as you can find clear frequencies, they have decent range and a good sound for the price. They are looked down upon for drama work and not without reason, but they are the most affordable "decent" wireless I know of.

Roshdi Alkadri · March 16th, 2008, 03:42 PM

thanks for the reply, im wondering if i extend my budget for a wireless system to $2000, what are good options. Preferrably for drama work/corporate.

Peter Moretti · March 17th, 2008, 12:29 AM

All I can tell you is that around here in Los Angeles, when I've asked sound guys about lavs, the Sanken COS-11 is the mic ususally first mentioned. It seems to have almost a cult following. From what I understand, it takes a beating, is easy to hide and sounds great.

(I actually own one but have to return it for a beige model, so I can't comment on how it sounds, but I would imagine it sounds excellent.)

Surprisingly, the Countryman B6 is not really in favor that much. Apparently there are complaints about static electricity and a brittle sounding top end. I've heard this from a few sound shops, but still it may well be more hearsay than fact.

Steve House · March 17th, 2008, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshdi Alkadri

...
2. I also read about many production companies using the 416 as a V.O. mic, would a LAV make it a better V.O. mic for narration

...

My 2 cents - the 416 would be a viable choice as an ADR mic but less so for VO. Narration needs that full, close-up and intimate sound you get in studio with a large diaphram vocal mic. A gun is more distant. There should be a distinct qualitative difference between sounds and voices that are within the scene and part of the story (even if the source is out of frame or like when we hear Sam Spade talking to himself trying to solve the case he's on "It was a foggy night in LA ...") and narration that comes from outside of the story, commentary about the story directed to us like Morgan Freeman's VO narration in "March of the Penguins." Dig up a classic episode of "Dragnet" and listen to the difference in presence on Joe Friday's voice when he's speaking as a player in the scene versus when he's setting it up "It was a Monday ... we were working the day watch out of Central Homicide...."

Dan Brockett · March 17th, 2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abe Dolinger

Dan Brockett is coming out with an extensive lav guide pretty soon, I think. Until then, my two cents. . I've owned the following:

Tram TR50: good all-around mic, a bit too crisp in the upper range for me but works well esp. for male voices. Good mounting options.
PSC Millimic: kind of like a smaller, duller Tram. Not bad all-around but a bit dull.
Sennheiser MKE-2: Clear full sound, one of my favorites. Circular design makes it better for some mounting choices. Wide natural pickup also - I like to use this as a plant mic.
Countryman B6: Clear also, perhaps a bit blocky in the bass. Best I have for female voices. Very small and easy to hide, but the cable is somewhat noisy.

I have some COS-11Bp mics on the way, will update with my impressions.

A 416 can be a fine mic for VO in the right conditions. Lavs are generally more forgiving of a space due to their smaller pickup range.

I think the G2s are a great solution for those venues. As long as you can find clear frequencies, they have decent range and a good sound for the price. They are looked down upon for drama work and not without reason, but they are the most affordable "decent" wireless I know of.

Hi Abe:

Yes, I am finishing up the article this week hopefully so you should see it on Ken's site in the next 2-3 weeks. This one is looking to be around 35-38 pages so it as been a lot of writing, listening and comparing to get it done.

I pretty much agree with your takes, based upon what my testing revealed.

1. I own two Tram TR50s, have used them for many years. They are good sounding but the Sonotrim sounds better for just a few bucks more

2. PSC Millimic sounded decent, although it does seem to empahsize the mids quite a bit. Would be a great mic for a low talker.

3. Sennehsier MKE-2 was very good, good all around performer. Nice and crisp with decent mids and bass.

4. Countryman B6 - I own one too. Not a bad sounding mic. So easy to hide, I like to call it "the lazy persons dream". I find the highs a bit harsh sometimes but it does sound good overall in most situations.

5. Sanken COS-11X sounded quite good although a bit of cable handling noise was apparent. VERY popular in LA.

I would also seriously consider the DPA 4061/71 and the Voice Technologies VT-400 and 500. All four of these mics are sleepers and sounded great. Not sure why more people haven't heard of them or use them?

A lot more info and sound samples soon. For this round, we have tests for you with male voice above wardrobe, female voice above wardrobe, female voice below wardrobe, cable handling noise test and how it cuts with a shotgun/lavalier test. A ton of clips on this one.

Stay tuned!

Dan

Roshdi Alkadri · March 17th, 2008, 05:37 PM

thanks for the replies. I was looking for a good LAV for interviews that can also be hooked up to a wireless system, that same wireless system would also support a wireless boom operation. please any suggestions.

Roshdi Alkadri · March 17th, 2008, 06:09 PM

anyways, i kept doing circles until i landed on this

http://www.vistek.ca/store/ProVideoM...-ecm44bmp.aspx

i thought the LAV can be used for the sit down interviews, while the hand held for on street interviews and for speeches at events. Has anyone used this sony system before, any comments about it?

Jimmy Tuffrey · March 17th, 2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshdi Alkadri

anyways, i kept doing circles until i landed on this

http://www.vistek.ca/store/ProVideoM...-ecm44bmp.aspx

i thought the LAV can be used for the sit down interviews, while the hand held for on street interviews and for speeches at events. Has anyone used this sony system before, any comments about it?

It is OK.

Noisey companding circuit but OK within it's limited range. Requires good level setting to avoid the 'breathing' sounds of the compander.

I have one with an ECM77.
Lack of top end clarity which the mic has but the wireless does not.

I consider it to be the very bottom end of professional.

If you use this system then don't get to hung up about the quality of your lav mic.

No rf issues within range though due to diversity which is a plus.

Roshdi Alkadri · March 17th, 2008, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Tuffrey

It is OK.

Noisey companding circuit but OK within it's limited range. Requires good level setting to avoid the 'breathing' sounds of the compander.

I have one with an ECM77.
Lack of top end clarity which the mic has but the wireless does not.

I consider it to be the very bottom end of professional.

If you use this system then don't get to hung up about the quality of your lav mic.

No rf issues within range though due to diversity which is a plus.

ok thanks, what other bundle would you suggest with these in mind:

-LAV'S for interviews
-Hand held wireless for business speaker situation

Ty Ford · March 17th, 2008, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

All I can tell you is that around here in Los Angeles, when I've asked sound guys about lavs, the Sanken COS-11 is the mic ususally first mentioned. It seems to have almost a cult following. From what I understand, it takes a beating, is easy to hide and sounds great.

(I actually own one but have to return it for a beige model, so I can't comment on how it sounds, but I would imagine it sounds excellent.)

Surprisingly, the Countryman B6 is not really in favor that much. Apparently there are complaints about static electricity and a brittle sounding top end. I've heard this from a few sound shops, but still it may well be more hearsay than fact.

If you go to www.tyford.com>iWEB>online archive>GuitarsofPikesville and download "Josh Guitar 2 final", you can hear a Countryman e6. Same capsule. I never had any static with either my b6 or e6. The B6 is way easier to hide than a COS-11.

Regards,

Ty Ford

Jimmy Tuffrey · March 18th, 2008, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshdi Alkadri

ok thanks, what other bundle would you suggest with these in mind:

-LAV'S for interviews
-Hand held wireless for business speaker situation

Actually I would probably suggest the Sony as there is little any better in the price range. If I was you I would go second hand and see what you can find. Here in the UK there is a major price jump to get anything better but in Canada where you are you might find something. The Lectro systems make us here a bit jealous as they seem to go for very reasonable prices in U.S.A. for example but in U.K. they are frequency wise illegal.

I did not mean to put you off the system that your link points too but rather to answer the question "has anybody used this system before..."

Guy Cochran · March 18th, 2008, 01:06 PM

I love the size of the Countryman B6. Although from what I've heard, they do not hold up to brutal talent (the cabling is incredible thin for hiding). We've been careful with our B6's and I always try to immediately establish a good relationship with talent so I can jokingly tell them how much the mic cost that they are wearing. They tend to respect it a bit more after that. Anyhow, here is a clip I recently recorded with the B6 http://www.dvcreators.net/countryman-b6-lavalier/

March 16th, 2008, 12:39 PM	#1
Roshdi Alkadri Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 265	A solid LAV mic hello everyone. I read quite a bit about this. Just wondering what is an excellent wired mic for interviews. I will be suspending my 416 from a mic stand above the subject and sending that to one channel while the other channel will be a lav. 1.I need to purchase a good solid LAV, i was leaning towards the Sony ECM series 2. I also read about many production companies using the 416 as a V.O. mic, would a LAV make it a better V.O. mic for narration 3. I was also thinking about the Sennheiser G2 wireless series for business meetings and events, what do you think? as usual thank you

March 18th, 2008, 01:06 PM	#15
Guy Cochran DVCreators.Net Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 892	I love the size of the Countryman B6. Although from what I've heard, they do not hold up to brutal talent (the cabling is incredible thin for hiding). We've been careful with our B6's and I always try to immediately establish a good relationship with talent so I can jokingly tell them how much the mic cost that they are wearing. They tend to respect it a bit more after that. Anyhow, here is a clip I recently recorded with the B6 http://www.dvcreators.net/countryman-b6-lavalier/ __________________ Guy Cochran DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore!

March 16th, 2008, 01:57 PM	#2
Craig Irving Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Toronto Posts: 539	I have not done any extensive comparisons, but I have two ECM77Bs and I like them very much. I've only compared them against the supplied lavs that come with the Sennheiser G2 kit and that wasn't really a fair comparison I suppose. I ended up rigging the ECM77Bs up to the Sennheiser G2 kit with some adapters whenever I needed wireless.

March 16th, 2008, 03:21 PM	#3
Roshdi Alkadri Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 265	what kind of adapters are we talking about?

March 16th, 2008, 03:29 PM	#4
Abe Dolinger Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 111	Dan Brockett is coming out with an extensive lav guide pretty soon, I think. Until then, my two cents. . I've owned the following: Tram TR50: good all-around mic, a bit too crisp in the upper range for me but works well esp. for male voices. Good mounting options. PSC Millimic: kind of like a smaller, duller Tram. Not bad all-around but a bit dull. Sennheiser MKE-2: Clear full sound, one of my favorites. Circular design makes it better for some mounting choices. Wide natural pickup also - I like to use this as a plant mic. Countryman B6: Clear also, perhaps a bit blocky in the bass. Best I have for female voices. Very small and easy to hide, but the cable is somewhat noisy. I have some COS-11Bp mics on the way, will update with my impressions. A 416 can be a fine mic for VO in the right conditions. Lavs are generally more forgiving of a space due to their smaller pickup range. I think the G2s are a great solution for those venues. As long as you can find clear frequencies, they have decent range and a good sound for the price. They are looked down upon for drama work and not without reason, but they are the most affordable "decent" wireless I know of.

March 16th, 2008, 03:42 PM	#5
Roshdi Alkadri Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 265	thanks for the reply, im wondering if i extend my budget for a wireless system to $2000, what are good options. Preferrably for drama work/corporate.

March 17th, 2008, 12:29 AM	#6
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	All I can tell you is that around here in Los Angeles, when I've asked sound guys about lavs, the Sanken COS-11 is the mic ususally first mentioned. It seems to have almost a cult following. From what I understand, it takes a beating, is easy to hide and sounds great. (I actually own one but have to return it for a beige model, so I can't comment on how it sounds, but I would imagine it sounds excellent.) Surprisingly, the Countryman B6 is not really in favor that much. Apparently there are complaints about static electricity and a brittle sounding top end. I've heard this from a few sound shops, but still it may well be more hearsay than fact.

March 17th, 2008, 05:37 PM	#9
Roshdi Alkadri Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 265	thanks for the replies. I was looking for a good LAV for interviews that can also be hooked up to a wireless system, that same wireless system would also support a wireless boom operation. please any suggestions.

March 17th, 2008, 06:09 PM	#10
Roshdi Alkadri Major Player Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 265	anyways, i kept doing circles until i landed on this http://www.vistek.ca/store/ProVideoM...-ecm44bmp.aspx i thought the LAV can be used for the sit down interviews, while the hand held for on street interviews and for speeches at events. Has anyone used this sony system before, any comments about it?