Schoeps cmc6 capsule for indoor dialogue recording: mk41g or mk41v? at DVinfo.net

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Old June 26th, 2008, 02:41 PM   #1
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Schoeps cmc6 capsule for indoor dialogue recording: mk41g or mk41v?

Hi. I am going to purchase a mic for indoor dialogue recording, and hear the schoeps is one of the best. I assume the mk41g is the better capsule to get for general dialogue recording, but I had to ask. The mk41 v seems as though it would pick up too much sound from the set.

Also, what is the optimum range for the cmc6 supercardioid series? i.e. will it work if I have a wide shot indoors and the mic is several feet above the actors?? (Or would I need a shotgun mic for that?)

Any help I am greatly appreciative of.

p.s. What zeppelin and wind-gear will I need for my boom setup and this mic?

Last edited by Spencer Dickson; June 26th, 2008 at 03:22 PM.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 05:18 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Spencer Dickson View Post
Hi. I am going to purchase a mic for indoor dialogue recording, and hear the schoeps is one of the best. I assume the mk41g is the better capsule to get for general dialogue recording, but I had to ask. The mk41 v seems as though it would pick up too much sound from the set.

Also, what is the optimum range for the cmc6 supercardioid series? i.e. will it work if I have a wide shot indoors and the mic is several feet above the actors?? (Or would I need a shotgun mic for that?)

Any help I am greatly appreciative of.

p.s. What zeppelin and wind-gear will I need for my boom setup and this mic?
Beginner user here... not sure the mk41 V version is adapted for dialogue other than maybe sitting at the same side of a table. V is for vertically (or laterally, or side-) addressed as opposed to the typical axially or front-addressed. Not sure there are windscreens for V versions other than the popscreen. Page 121 of the current Schoeps catalogue summarizes the windscreens, popscreens etc options.

The polar patterns of the two capsules (mk41v and mk41g) are the same; '4' stands for cardioid and '41' super-cardioid; mk41g and mk41v are both supercardioids (mk4 is cardioid). 'g' stands for nextel gray color of the body, I believe, as opposed to an earlier version which didn't say 'g' and was painted differently, but same electroacoustic characteristics as the 'g'.

cmc6 is the body amplifier (a pre-preamp if you ask me) atttaching to the capsule. A cmc641 is the body plus the mk41 capsule. From reading other reports I believe a cmc641 (cmc6 body plus a mk41 capsule) is very well adapted within a 1-5 meters range from talent's mouth. And much more adapted than using shotgun indoors (an exception being probably a Sanken shotgun mic good in and outdoors).

For cheaper option, one would look at cmc5 body which accepts a lesser range of powering ('only' 48volts only I believe) as opposed to cmc6 accepting 12v-48v or similar, otherwise same electroacoustic characteristics.

Back to windscreens, one considers different windscreens/baskets/supports if one considers the CMC body to attach to the mk41 capsule direclty, or whether they connect through active cables.

Better have the catalogue handy :-) I feel I wrote too much above and it's almost all from the catalogue and from previous reports here.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 05:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spencer Dickson View Post
Hi. I am going to purchase a mic for indoor dialogue recording, and hear the schoeps is one of the best. I assume the mk41g is the better capsule to get for general dialogue recording, but I had to ask. The mk41 v seems as though it would pick up too much sound from the set.

Also, what is the optimum range for the cmc6 supercardioid series? i.e. will it work if I have a wide shot indoors and the mic is several feet above the actors?? (Or would I need a shotgun mic for that?)

Any help I am greatly appreciative of.

p.s. What zeppelin and wind-gear will I need for my boom setup and this mic?
The 41v is a 'side address' microphone while the 41g is an end address. Out on the end of a boom, the boom operator can tell where an end address mic is pointing but that's difficult with a side address. When it's on a stand in front of a musical group or instrument, being able to point it like a flashlight isn't an issue.

As to the other question, that depends on your definition of "several feet." By that do you mean 2 feet or 10? The rule of thumb, EVEN FOR A SHOTGUN, is the mic should be close enough to the talent that they could comfortably reach up their hand and touch the mic. Shotgun mics DO NOT magnify the sound the way a telephoto lens magnifies an image. They have the illusion of having more "reach" because their rejection of side noises lets you place them slightly farther away from the talent and compensate for the distance by raising the recording gain a smidge. But we're not talking several feet - we're talking about a hyper being useful for 18 to 24 inches from the subject while a short shotgun is useful for 24 to 36 inches from the subject sort of difference.

You probably don't need a zepp for interiors unless you're swinging the mic wildly to follow intense action. I have the Schoeps B5D windscreen which works well. For more intense applications, the Rycote Baby Ball Gag is a popular choice. Remember that ANY wind shielding can affect the mic's directivity so you don't want to use more than you really need. But pay careful attention to the suspension - handling noise is an issue with a mic of the Schoeps' sensitivity. I have a Rycote Invision suspension that works well. The Cinela is also a good choice, albeit pricey. But a number of mounts provide sufficiently less isolation that many users find they need to add the Schoeps Cut1 filter to the mic. (The necessity of the Cut1 also depends in part on whether your mixer has robust highpass filters on its inputs.)
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Old June 26th, 2008, 05:39 PM   #4
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Suspension? Forgive my technical ignorance, but I don't know what those are. I assume it's the thing that the mic clips onto. What is a cut1?

I will most likely be using a Sound Devices 442, but may also be using its little counterpart, the mix pre. I don't know if either of those mixers have robust high-pass filters on their inputs.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 05:58 PM   #5
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Suspension? Forgive my technical ignorance, but I don't know what those are. I assume it's the thing that the mic clips onto. What is a cut1?

I will most likely be using a Sound Devices 442, but may also be using its little counterpart, the mix pre. I don't know if either of those mixers have robust high-pass filters on their inputs.

Yep - the suspension is the shock mount on the end of the boom that the mic fastens into.

The SD 442 has excellent high pass (low cut) filters, in fact all the Sound Devices line have filters that are very good. It's that sort of thing that accounts for the difference you pay for in a product from SD versus something from, say, Rolls at a 5th the cost.

A Cut 1 is a low-cut, high-pass filter from Schoeps that screws onto the mic in between the capsule and the CMC amplifier stage. It nips very low frequency handling noises in the bud before they can affect the mic's own preamp stage or other devices downline. Some users swear by them and keep them in place all the time, others find that their suspension and wind protection choices are adequate without having to add the additional lowcut filtering. But as with all things Schoeps it's not exactly cheap, running almost $700 US.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 06:08 PM   #6
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Steve, would you recommend the Cut1, or do you think I can get by fine without it? I will need a mount such as the Schoeps A20 and the A20 S if I use the Cut1.

I am trying to find out exactly what I will need to make this mic system rock my socks off. I like to know every single element involved. I am not trying to re-invent the wheel here...just copy what successful guys do and get solid results. Results good enough for marketable content.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 06:16 PM   #7
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Steve, would you recommend the Cut1, or do you think I can get by fine without it? I will need a mount such as the Schoeps A20 and the A20 S if I use the Cut1.

I am trying to find out exactly what I will need to make this mic system rock my socks off. I like to know every single element involved. I am not trying to re-invent the wheel here...just copy what successful guys do and get solid results. Results good enough for marketable content.
You'll need a mount like the A20 or A20S even if you don't use the Cut 1. Check out the Rycote Invision, about $75. Excellent shock protection if the boom op knows what he's doing.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 06:19 PM   #8
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I want the best available, if there is a best. Most likely there are a few products of the same high quality and the choice comes down to personal preference. Is the Rycote as good as the Schoeps mounts?

As for a windscreen, what would you recommend? The Schoeps B5 and B5D look okay.
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Old June 26th, 2008, 06:30 PM   #9
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another option in mounts is the Rycote S series. use it indoors without the screens, outside with. has the same new suspension mount
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Old June 26th, 2008, 07:23 PM   #10
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Can I use a windscreen like the D5 with the a20 s? Also, will the A20 S work well if I only have the capsule and cmc6 amp? (They say the A20 is for use with just the capsule and amp, and the A20 s is for use with the capsule, amp and other peripherals, such as the cut1).
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Old June 27th, 2008, 05:54 AM   #11
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The differences are in the stiffness of the elastics suspending the mic. The Cut1, etc, adds weight which means the elastics need to be stiffer to properly damp the vibrations. I'm sure the Schoeps mounts are excellent but don't just throw money into the kit willy-nilly. Rycote is a leader that will be found in use on just about every feature film set on the planet. K-Tek also, PSC is another. AKG and AudioTechnica mounts are also quite good. The Cinela Osix is superb. Just because you're using a Schoeps mic doesn't mean that Schoeps mounts are the only ones to consider, or are even the best ones to choose.
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Old June 27th, 2008, 11:12 AM   #12
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from your header you want the mic for inside use... Inside there would be almost no use for a rycote system... I use a Audio Technica 8415 with a 4 normal fat elastics, its really nice and light, I use a 641 with a cut1,
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Old June 27th, 2008, 01:44 PM   #13
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Sometimes I get tired of spending weeks and weeks without gear, waiting to find the "perfect" stuff. I figure that Schoeps aren't about to make crappy mounts. While they may not be the best, I am sure they aren't anything but very high quality. I could be totally wrong though.

If I were to get a Rycote system though, is there a specific model I could use with the capsule and the amp, and, in differing situations, the capsule, the amp and the cut1? I don't want to have to switch mounts just because I added a low-pass filter. (Can a windscreen be used in conjunction with a Rycote system? I thought a read that they could not.)
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Old June 27th, 2008, 01:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Spencer Dickson View Post
Sometimes I get tired of spending weeks and weeks without gear, waiting to find the "perfect" stuff. I figure that Schoeps aren't about to make crappy mounts. While they may not be the best, I am sure they aren't anything but very high quality. I could be totally wrong though.

If I were to get a Rycote system though, is there a specific model I could use with the capsule and the amp, and, in differing situations, the capsule, the amp and the cut1? I don't want to have to switch mounts just because I added a low-pass filter. (Can a windscreen be used in conjunction with a Rycote system? I thought a read that they could not.)
I'm sure the Schoeps are excellent, just wanted to make sure you knew they weren't the only game in town.

Rycote mounts absolutely can be used with wind protetion. Take a look at the website, www.rycote.com. Mounts and wind protection are their bread and butter
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Old June 27th, 2008, 01:56 PM   #15
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the rycote S series is modular and adjustable. the 350 will hold a CMC6 + cap +cut1 or a CMIT 5 or similar sized mic. if you decide to get a longer mic, you can add on a longer windscreen module, and slide the harps to adjust. check it out... and no you don't have to have the windscreens on indoors. leave them off.

now there have been times indoors when I've needed a full windscreen when the HVAC was pushing a lot of air around and it couldn't be shut off.
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