Mic for shooting concert (close to the stage) at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 2nd, 2008, 08:44 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Grenoble - France / Figueres - Spain
Posts: 61
Mic for shooting concert (close to the stage)

Hi,

Yesterday i shot some rock band with heavy volume. I was approximately at 6m from the sound. And my Rode nt2 mic gave me a really bad sound. Probably to sensitive to be so close to the source (i had -6db ear thing in my ears).

This night i will try with my Sure beta58 singing mic.

But someone can give me an advice on which mic is good for this kind of shooting ?

thanks.
__________________
_______________________
www.fabrice-hoffmann.com
Fabrice Hoffmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2008, 09:54 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabrice Hoffmann View Post
Yesterday i shot some rock band with heavy volume. I was approximately at 6m from the sound. And my Rode nt2 mic gave me a really bad sound. Probably to sensitive to be so close to the source (i had -6db ear thing in my ears).
You might still be able to use the NT2, but you're going to want to attenuate the signal before it hits the A/D stage in your camera. You can pick up various in-line attenuators (Shure, Audio-Technica, Whirlwind, and many others), which will help reduce the chance of you overloading the A/D section.

You're going to want to probably get some that will go down to at least -15 dB, maybe even -20 dB. While most cameras also have some sort of attenuation built into the camera, you probably want to use the in-line attenuation units and if you must, then use the attenuation on the camera.

Are there other mics? Sure, but even I have to use in-line attenuators when I put mics on stage with some loud acts.

Wayne
__________________
Mics: KMR 82 i, NTG-1, MKH418S, MKH8040, SR77, QTC1, QTC40, SR30
Recorder: Zaxcom Deva 5.8 & MIX-12. Wireless: TRX900 stereo, Lectro 411
Wayne Brissette is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2008, 12:50 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Grenoble - France / Figueres - Spain
Posts: 61
I'm trying to understand if my JVC GY-HD251 has a -12/-20 db attenuation but it's not clear (like it was one my old xl1).

If i don't find before two hours from now, i will do a test with my beta58, to see if it's better.

Thanks.
__________________
_______________________
www.fabrice-hoffmann.com
Fabrice Hoffmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2008, 02:09 PM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Remember that the mic has a -5/-10 dB pad as well. Did you set it on before recording? I'd go with the -10dB position on the mic first as you may be distorting internally in the mic itself.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2008, 02:12 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Grenoble - France / Figueres - Spain
Posts: 61
Are you talking about the nt2 which have a -10db pad ? I can't find where.
__________________
_______________________
www.fabrice-hoffmann.com
Fabrice Hoffmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2008, 03:44 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabrice Hoffmann View Post
Are you talking about the nt2 which have a -10db pad ? I can't find where.
Was looking at Rode's current info on the NT2a studio mic. If you have the older NT2, I think the built-in pad was added in the upgrade. Sorry if I got your hopes up - my bad.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

Last edited by Steve House; August 2nd, 2008 at 05:06 PM.
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2008, 04:58 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Colony TX
Posts: 327
I use Audio-Technica AT-2020 mics (two of them) for doing club gig videos. The important question is, are you monitoring the audio through headphones while recording? If not, then that's half your problem right there. Level meters lie like a cheap rug. The levels LOOK good, but sound lousy. A decent set of headphones, plus going off autolevel and setting the record levels manually makes all the difference in the world.

Martin
__________________
Canon XF300, Canon 5DMkII, Canon XL2, Rolls MX422 mixer, Zoom H4N, AT899 lavs, AT2020's, Azden SGM 1X shotgun, Manfrotto 501 head on 351 tripod
Martin Catt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2008, 05:17 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Olney, Maryland
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fabrice Hoffmann View Post
Hi,

Yesterday i shot some rock band with heavy volume. I was approximately at 6m from the sound. ....
At what input level did the JVC251 peak at? Are you set to manual recording level? Did you have the limiters turned on?

And as always...Please use hearing protection to protect your ears. Permanent damage can occur at those levels.
Jim Boda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 03:44 AM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Grenoble - France / Figueres - Spain
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Catt View Post
I use Audio-Technica AT-2020 mics (two of them) for doing club gig videos. The important question is, are you monitoring the audio through headphones while recording? If not, then that's half your problem right there. Level meters lie like a cheap rug. The levels LOOK good, but sound lousy. A decent set of headphones, plus going off autolevel and setting the record levels manually makes all the difference in the world.

Martin
Thanks for the headphone's info. No, i didn't use them (until now) and was just refering to the level meters, set manually, just before clipping, and sometime the limiter was on. Perhaps this is the wrong way. Next time i will use my headphone, to see if i can ear the distorsion.
__________________
_______________________
www.fabrice-hoffmann.com
Fabrice Hoffmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 04:01 AM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chichester UK
Posts: 167
Recording loud sounds

First post from a new member of the forum! I was recording a restored Vulcan jet bomber taking off at an airshow recently and remembered what my old master (Peter Handford, mixer on Murder on the Orient Express etc etc) told me. Use a very insensitive mic on those occasions, an old moving coil mic is good. Modern mics are wonderfully sensitive but confront them with huge pressure waves and the front end can overload, before attenuators can do their stuff. As an experiment I put a Sennheiser MKH416 on one channel and an old AKG D25 on the other...the D25 won hands down. So, the moral is if you are going to do a lot of recording of loud noises, or music, try to get an old moving coil mic...ebay? Or at a rock concert get a feed from the desk.
Nick Flowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 11:55 AM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Grenoble - France / Figueres - Spain
Posts: 61
Last concert, i use my beta58, and the sound was way better. But it wasn't in the same configuration, i was close to the sound mixer, and not close to the scene (and sound). But has people make me understand, i was messing things up when recording manualy BUT too loud (just before clipping).

I have to respect the -12 or -20 db reference point of my camera, and ear what happens.

But the thing to use a much less sensitive mic is probably the good way, and the beta58 is still probably to much sensitive if front of the stage (and yes, i use ear protection).
__________________
_______________________
www.fabrice-hoffmann.com
Fabrice Hoffmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Denver/Vail Colorado
Posts: 254
shotgun mics are not recommended in live loud environments - apart from the sensitivity issue - they introduce way too much coloration

regular headphones are pretty much useless for stageside rock recording - not enough isolation -

best is to use a stereo mic (set to mono) or feed a mono mic to both channels and set one channel 8db lower than the other. Using an XLH1 the stock mic does a decent job
Peter Ralph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 03:10 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Grenoble - France / Figueres - Spain
Posts: 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ralph View Post
... Using an XLH1 the stock mic does a decent job
Perhaps i will have to make the sub-standard mic which came with the jvc hd251 to come back... :-)
__________________
_______________________
www.fabrice-hoffmann.com
Fabrice Hoffmann is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:56 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network