Sennheiser SK100 Jack confusion at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 28th, 2008, 04:39 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 259
Sennheiser SK100 Jack confusion

Hi

I have Sennheiser's EW 112p kit and to video a wedding am wanting to feed the SK100 transmitter from the church PA system. According to the SK100 manual, the pin connection for the input jack is Tip - Mic level +ve, Ring - Line level +ve, Shield - -ve. I am not sure how the mic/line level selection via the input jack interacts with the AF sensitivity menu setting, and remember (but cannot find) a post here some time back saying that Sennheiser's pin diagram was misleading.

I also have Sennheiser's female XLR to jack lead for connecting a mic to the SK100, which is wired:

XLR1 (ground) > Tip & Shield
XLR2 (hot) > Ring
XLR3 (cold) > Tip & Shield

This does not make a whole lot of sense given Sennheiser's description of the pins!

Does anyone know whether there is a better description of the SK100 jack pin-in, or how I should connect a line level input?

Many thanks,

Nick
Nick Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2008, 09:46 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
That looks right to me. The cable is to connect a line level XLR output to the line level input on the transmitter. XLR hot to 1/8 ring for line level. XLR cold and ground both to the 1/8 sleeve, 1/8 tip grounded for line level.

I might add that Senn has two different XLR->1/8 cables for the G2 series. One is wired as above and is used with line level sources only. The other is wired with the XLR hot (pin2) going to the 1/8 and the 1/8 ring is grounded and is used only when sending mic level sources to the transmitter.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

Last edited by Steve House; August 28th, 2008 at 11:43 AM.
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2008, 12:13 PM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
Use the line-level config when feeding the transmitter from a PA/mixer line-out. (1/8"; ring = hot) I have not tried feeding a +4dB operating level to the transmitter, which may very-well overload the input stage of the transmitter, regardless of the sensitivity setting so a attenuation pad may be required, Alternately you could feed mic-level with an in-line line-to-mic attenuation pad using the tip-hot config., or, select mic-level out on the mixer, if that's an option. (some of the Mackie's have a line/mic switch)
I feed a G2 transmitter all the time with a Sound Devices mixer tape-output (rated @ -15dB as I recall.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: La Paz Bolivia/Belgium
Posts: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Reineke View Post
I feed a G2 transmitter all the time with a Sound Devices mixer tape-output (rated @ -15dB as I recall.
Would that require a custom made cable? I'm trying to do the same thing but can't find the right cable.
Maybe this cable will work. But it does not have a locking 1/8'' plug for the G2 Transmitter.
Remote Audio | Unbalanced Line Level 3-pin Mini XLR | CASDT

Or this Sound Devices Cable, but it would still require a second cable to connect it to the transmitter.
Sound Devices | XL7 TA3-F to Mini Female Connector Cable | XL7

These cables seem to made more to connect the sound Devices mixer tape out to a recorder, but not to a G2 transmitter. Are there any other options?
Johan Bollen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
You would need a custom cable, neither cable you pointed out would work correctly for the G2 application. Trew Audio, Location Sound, or Markertek can make custom cables, or make it yourself if your experienced.

Basically it should be wired (when using a SD mixer's tape-out TA3 connection to a 1/8" TRS)
Pin-1: Ground/shield
Pin-2, 3 or both: Ring (your preference, left, right or L & R)*
Float or tie the 1/8" plug tip to ground.
Set the G2-SK100 transmitter's sensitivity to -20 and your good to go.

* Note: if you want to send L & R separately to two transmitters, you would need to "Y" out from the TA3 to two 1/8" plugs.
SD has some tape-out wiring schematics which may be of interest.

Markertek sells locking 1/8" TRS plugs (#30-296-BK) for around $5 usd.
SD and some of their dealers (like B&H) have a 4-pack of TA3s for around $21 as I recall. Cheaper than buying singles if you need a few.

Last edited by Rick Reineke; August 28th, 2008 at 03:44 PM.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
Addendum:

Addendum: Wiring an -10db Unbalanced 1/4" out to 1/8" TRS plug for SK100.
- Ground/shield to Ground/shield
- Tip to ring
- Float or tie the 1/8" plug tip to ground.

Wiring a +4dB Balanced 1/4" out to 1/8" TRS plug for the SK100.
- Ground/shield to Ground/shield
- Tip to ring
- Float or tie the 1/8" plug tip to ground.
- Tie the 1/4" plug's ring to Ground/shield.

In this +4dB configurtion the signal must be attenuated by about -10dB or more. Either with an in-line or built in pad or via a mixer's master volume controls.

Last edited by Rick Reineke; August 28th, 2008 at 04:42 PM. Reason: Balanced/Unbalanced out for SK100 in.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2008, 05:18 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johan Bollen View Post
Would that require a custom made cable? I'm trying to do the same thing but can't find the right cable.
Maybe this cable will work. But it does not have a locking 1/8'' plug for the G2 Transmitter.
Remote Audio | Unbalanced Line Level 3-pin Mini XLR | CASDT

Or this Sound Devices Cable, but it would still require a second cable to connect it to the transmitter.
Sound Devices | XL7 TA3-F to Mini Female Connector Cable | XL7

These cables seem to made more to connect the sound Devices mixer tape out to a recorder, but not to a G2 transmitter. Are there any other options?
The G2 transmitter 1/8 TRS input jack does not follow the standard TRS wiring pattern, at least for not for line level inputs. Line level 'signal hot' must go to the TRS ring terminal. The normal pattern is signal hot goes to the TRS tip connector but the G2 uses that arrangement ONLY for mic level signals. Neither of those two listed cables would be proper.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2008, 06:24 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 289
not to mention if you wire to the tip of the 1/8th" plug you need to block the bias voltage with a capacitor, or risk damage or at least signal degradation...

sennheiser sells cables specifically for the g2 bodypacks. the CM-1 connects an xlr mic level signal to the bodypack. the CL-2 connects an xlr line level signal to the bodypack. if you aren't up to making a custom cable yourself, or if this seems impossibly confusing to you, i highly recommend going with the sennheiser cables. they work.

Last edited by Greg Bellotte; August 28th, 2008 at 06:25 PM. Reason: spelling...
Greg Bellotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2008, 09:07 PM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: La Paz Bolivia/Belgium
Posts: 33
Quote:
Markertek sells locking 1/8" TRS plugs (#30-296-BK) for around $5 usd.
SD and some of their dealers (like B&H) have a 4-pack of TA3s for around $21 as I recall. Cheaper than buying singles if you need a few.
I have no experience making my own cables. This seems like a good opportunity to try. thanks guys.
Johan Bollen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2008, 02:05 PM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
Just out of curiosity I looked up the CM-1 & CL-2 Sennh. cables. Prices ranged from $50-85usd, YOW! The CL1 has a blocking cap, it doesn't state if the CL-2 has any attenuation, which is necessary for +4 outputs.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2008, 02:24 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 289
sorry, forgot to mention the sticker shock. :-) then again, for those who can't do anything else I say that's the cost of making it work, and good audio is ALWAYS worth the money. those prices are list however, and can be had for MUCH cheaper if you shop around.

btw, the CL-2 has no attenuation...but works fine with +4 on 500 series gear (all that i own...)
Greg Bellotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 29th, 2008, 05:35 PM   #12
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Bellotte View Post
sorry, forgot to mention the sticker shock. :-) then again, for those who can't do anything else I say that's the cost of making it work, and good audio is ALWAYS worth the money. those prices are list however, and can be had for MUCH cheaper if you shop around.

btw, the CL-2 has no attenuation...but works fine with +4 on 500 series gear (all that i own...)
CL-2 in B&H is $28.95 USD:
Sennheiser | CL-2 Transmitter Line Cable 1/8"-M to | CL2 - well worth the money, works perfectly well with my G2 100. You can also use a pad for additional attenuation, when needed...
__________________
Thank you.
Ilya Spektor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2009, 10:20 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Italy, naples
Posts: 149
ew100 g2 receiver and connectors,

I see on CL-1 cable (the mini plug trs -trs) wired with a tip -to both tip/ring and sleeve to sleeve, why? if it is supposed to be used for line in inputs it should be wired as ring/sleeve to ring/sleeve mode.
does receiver works differently? i mean AF OUT is + 10 dbu and WE have just to set correly levels in menu?
David Aliperti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 26th, 2009, 11:54 AM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aliperti View Post
I see on CL-1 cable (the mini plug trs -trs) wired with a tip -to both tip/ring and sleeve to sleeve, why? if it is supposed to be used for line in inputs it should be wired as ring/sleeve to ring/sleeve mode.
does receiver works differently? i mean AF OUT is + 10 dbu and WE have just to set correly levels in menu?
Yes, the receiver is different. With the transmitter you put a mic level signal hot on the tip and a line level signal hot on the ring. But the receiver output jack is unbalanced with signal on the tip only, ring unconnected. If you're going to plug into a camera minijack "mic in" connector, those are usually stereo jacks with left on tip, right on ring. Since most of the time you want a mono wireless to record as dual-mono on both the left and right channels in the camera, shorting tip to ring at the camera end of the cable accomplishes that.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 27th, 2009, 04:33 AM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Oxfordshire, UK
Posts: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Wilson View Post
I also have Sennheiser's female XLR to jack lead for connecting a mic to the SK100, which is wired:

XLR1 (ground) > Tip & Shield
XLR2 (hot) > Ring
XLR3 (cold) > Tip & Shield

This does not make a whole lot of sense given Sennheiser's description of the pins!

Does anyone know whether there is a better description of the SK100 jack pin-in, or how I should connect a line level input?
This is *not* a mic. input cable, it's a *line* input cable.

The mic. input cable ie wired:-
XLR1 (ground) > Ring & Shield
XLR2 (hot) > Tip + a blocking capacitor
XLR3 (cold) > Ring & Shield

The mic. cable is not a Sennheiser standard and would be made up by a Sennheiser dealer - it requeres a blocking capacitor inside to stop the plug-in power getting to a dynamic mic.

The 100 series output cable is wired:-
XLR1 (ground) > Shield
XLR2 (hot) > Tip
XLR3 (cold) > Shield

I hope this helps.
__________________
John Willett - Sound-Link ProAudio and Circle Sound Services
President: Fédération Internationale des Chasseurs de Sons
John Willett is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:06 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network