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Old September 29th, 2008, 04:16 PM   #1
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Edirol R-44: Sync with picture

Hi everyone,

I want to get the R-44 but I'm concerned about its lack of Time Code. Has anyone experienced problems syncing picture with audio from this recorder, using the clapper board method?

Regards,


Andres.
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Old September 29th, 2008, 04:45 PM   #2
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No, I've got my R44 from Pinknoise-Systems in the UK and it has synced every time. Although I haven't used to sync longer than 12minutes of continuous audio. I was once in a hurry and didn't take a clapboard with me so I just clapped in the end of the shoot and it synced well.

T
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Old September 30th, 2008, 09:45 AM   #3
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Hi Toenis,

Thanks for your answer. Well I think it should be fine as mainly I'm working in short films, so takes are not that long anyway.

Also could you tell me about your experience with the Preamps, do you connect your mics directly or you go through a mixer first?


Regards,


Andres.
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Old September 30th, 2008, 10:20 AM   #4
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hi,
I am using my R44 for documentary work. so far no real probs. I just clap wih hands. syncing is easier then I tought, especially if you have a sound/boomoperator..
I use it with the -NTG3 and senny g2 100 series, the preamps work fine for me..anyway, a recorder can only read timecode. so if your camera doesnt have it..my canon xhA1 doesnt anyway and what other (payable)options are there left then except bad comptessed hdv sound?

grtz
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Old October 1st, 2008, 03:55 AM   #5
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Hi Andres

I haven't used this recorder but I have recorded separate sound using other devices.

I don't know if you are aware of this technique. If you record onto the camera tape using the onboard mic you can use this track to get your sync in your NLE. Slide the separate sound track, whilst listening to both, until the echo disappears.

I don't think that this will work if you are recording sound a long way from the camera because of the delay.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 05:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terwingen Niels View Post
I use it with the -NTG3 and senny g2 100 series
Have you experienced interference from R44 when using the G2 100 series receiver near it?
I've found that in some point the R44 interferes my receiver when I place it in front of on on the back (bottom) of the recorder it appears on one side of the recorder more than on the other.

Any ideas?
T
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Old October 1st, 2008, 10:40 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Terwingen Niels View Post
hi,
I am using my R44 for documentary work. so far no real probs. I just clap wih hands. syncing is easier then I tought, especially if you have a sound/boomoperator..
I use it with the -NTG3 and senny g2 100 series, the preamps work fine for me..anyway, a recorder can only read timecode. so if your camera doesnt have it..my canon xhA1 doesnt anyway and what other (payable)options are there left then except bad comptessed hdv sound?

grtz
Thank you for your answer, actually the NTG3 is one of the mics I'm considering to get next to the R-44. Have you experience RF interference with this mic? I'm asking because I worked with the NTG2 last weekend, and it gets RF easily.

Regarding the TC, I found that the R-4 Pro can be Slave or Master, so it generates Time Code. I guess all expensive recorders do.


Regards,


Andres.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 10:49 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Andres Montana Duret View Post
Thank you for your answer, actually the NTG3 is one of the mics I'm considering to get next to the R-44. Have you experience RF interference with this mic? I'm asking because I worked with the NTG2 last weekend, and it gets RF easily.

Regarding the TC, I found that the R-4 Pro can be Slave or Master, so it generates Time Code. I guess all expensive recorders do.


Regards,


Andres.
The NTG-3 operates with a different principle than do regular shotgun mics, borrowed from the Senn MKH416, and relative immunity to RF interference was one of its design goals.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 11:01 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Richard Gooderick View Post
Hi Andres

I haven't used this recorder but I have recorded separate sound using other devices.

I don't know if you are aware of this technique. If you record onto the camera tape using the onboard mic you can use this track to get your sync in your NLE. Slide the separate sound track, whilst listening to both, until the echo disappears.

I don't think that this will work if you are recording sound a long way from the camera because of the delay.

Thank you Richard, I never heard of that technique before; but I think you are right about the problem with the delay.

Actually I'm more concerned about problems with the clock of the recorder, as I read the Zoom H-4 will show a difference of more than a second in around 30 minutes compared to other devices; so it is difficult to accurately sync sound and picture.


Andres.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 11:13 AM   #10
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The NTG-3 operates with a different principle than do regular shotgun mics, borrowed from the Senn MKH416, and relative immunity to RF interference was one of its design goals.
Thank you Steve, good to hear that. And thanks again for the comparison between the Schoeps and the NTG3; my main conclusion: the Schoeps is AMAZING, but unfortunately out of my league at the moment.

Regards,

Andres.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 11:48 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Andres Montana Duret View Post
Thank you Steve, good to hear that. And thanks again for the comparison between the Schoeps and the NTG3; my main conclusion: the Schoeps is AMAZING, but unfortunately out of my league at the moment.

Regards,

Andres.
Thanks - I recorded that for two purposes. One was to test the Rode mic, the other to compare a hyper with a shotgun in a typical indoors as a lot of folks try to make do with just a 'gun. When I get a little time I'm going to do a couple of indoor/outdoor tests with the Rode to compare its performance in both environments.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 03:28 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Andres Montana Duret View Post
Thank you Richard, I never heard of that technique before; but I think you are right about the problem with the delay.

Actually I'm more concerned about problems with the clock of the recorder, as I read the Zoom H-4 will show a difference of more than a second in around 30 minutes compared to other devices; so it is difficult to accurately sync sound and picture.


Andres.
Sorry, don't even compare the H4 to the R-44.
They use different internal clock crystals. Zooms are cheap. Edirol's are not.

I haven't had any issues with my R-44 holding sync.
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Old October 1st, 2008, 03:59 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Richard Gooderick View Post
Hi Andres

I haven't used this recorder but I have recorded separate sound using other devices.

I don't know if you are aware of this technique. If you record onto the camera tape using the onboard mic you can use this track to get your sync in your NLE. Slide the separate sound track, whilst listening to both, until the echo disappears.

I don't think that this will work if you are recording sound a long way from the camera because of the delay.
The formula would be approximately 1 millisecond difference for every foot of difference between the two mics.

Happy sliding.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old October 1st, 2008, 08:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Gooderick View Post
Hi Andres

I haven't used this recorder but I have recorded separate sound using other devices.

I don't know if you are aware of this technique. If you record onto the camera tape using the onboard mic you can use this track to get your sync in your NLE. Slide the separate sound track, whilst listening to both, until the echo disappears.

I don't think that this will work if you are recording sound a long way from the camera because of the delay.
I have done this and it has worked well for me.

What I find also works well is in Vegas I can blow up the waveform view, visually find corresponding points in the camcorder and external recorder sound (I use a PCM-D50), and slide the external recorder sound until it matches up.
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