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Old October 15th, 2008, 11:24 AM   #1
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Mixer through Sennheiser Ew100G2?

Last night at a concert, I was trying to run wireless out of the mixer using my G2EW100 wireless setup. No matter what output we tried, I got distortion and lots of white noise. I understand the difference between line and mic level, so is this setup just not feasible? I have done it before with success and do not understand why I was having so much trouble. Both the mic and the Receiver were turned down to -30db and still no luck. ANy suggestion to help avoid this in the future would be greatly appreciated.

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Old October 15th, 2008, 12:06 PM   #2
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Line level is around 500mv - 2 volts so even turning a mic input down to -30db will cause it to overload. It is best to use line mixer with mic level outputs or a 40-50db attenuator before the input to the radio mic as this input will only handle mic levels.

Here is a useful diagram to make up a passive attenuator:http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/line_to_mic.html

Also see the cable below as this will do the same thing for you.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 12:08 PM   #3
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Hopefully you were using a cable such as the
Remote Audio G2 Line Level cable CASENEK100XL24

Remote Audio: Sennheiser Evolution Wireless Cables

G2 Line Level input with this cable is -10 I believe.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 03:01 PM   #4
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THanks!

That is why I love this forum. You ask a question and you get not one but two good answers. Thanks guys! One More questions, will the cable provide enough room or do you recommend the 40-50db pad?

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Old October 15th, 2008, 03:39 PM   #5
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The cable says that its line level so it should be attenuating down by around 40-50db.

You could make one yourself and the parts from radio shack or maplins will cost around $10

OR buy an in-line XLR attenuator for the ultimate flexibility if you need to run longer cables:http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Line_XLR.html#
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Old October 15th, 2008, 05:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Schwartz View Post
That is why I love this forum. You ask a question and you get not one but two good answers. Thanks guys! One More questions, will the cable provide enough room or do you recommend the 40-50db pad?

Jon Schwartz
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The line level cable doesn't pad the signal at all, it's actually wired differently - there are two different cables to use depending on whether you're sending a mic level or line level signal and you have to use the right one. The transmitter input is a TRS connector that accepts both mic and line level. The mic level cable's signal goes through the tip (ring and sleeve grounded together) and passes into the mic preamplifier. The line level cable's signal connects through the ring (tip and sleeve grounded together) and bypasses the mic preamp. That's not to say that you might not also need a pad but be aware that the proper cable to connect into the transmitter is NOT just a standard XLR or 1/4 TRS to mini cable with a pad in it.
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Old October 15th, 2008, 07:06 PM   #7
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1st - check transmitter sensitivity:_
0dB = normal speech
-10dB = loud speech
-20dB = singing
-30dB = loud singing
(as a rough goude)

Receiver:
Check that you have the output level set correctly (mic. or line)

I hope this helps.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 02:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
1st - check transmitter sensitivity:_
0dB = normal speech
-10dB = loud speech
-20dB = singing
-30dB = loud singing
(as a rough goude)

Receiver:
Check that you have the output level set correctly (mic. or line)

I hope this helps.
I've tried hooking up my G2 with a SD Mixpre... and had the same issue.. I figured I'd most likely need an attenuator..
Re: John's reply: How does one set the output on the G2 to line? The top of the receiver reads mic/line which let me suppose it could handle both...
What is the main difference in the G2 Line Level cable and the one supplied standard?
Regards
Gareth
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Old October 16th, 2008, 04:49 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Gareth Watkins View Post
I've tried hooking up my G2 with a SD Mixpre... and had the same issue.. I figured I'd most likely need an attenuator..
Re: John's reply: How does one set the output on the G2 to line? The top of the receiver reads mic/line which let me suppose it could handle both...
What is the main difference in the G2 Line Level cable and the one supplied standard?
Regards
Gareth

The standard mic level cable puts the signal hot on the TRS tip and grounds the ring to shield. The line level cable puts the signal on the TRS ring and grounds the tip to shield. Inside the transmitter, signal arriving on the tip goes to its mic preamps while signal ariving on the ring bypasses them. The specific cable used effectively switches the transmitter's input sensitivity between mic level and line level.

When using wireless to send signal from a mixer's output to a camera, recorder, or another mixer you need to be concerned with two independent levels. The first is insuring there's a match between the signal source and the transmitter input sensitivity - this is done in the G2 in part by using the correct cable to connect them. Then at the other end, you need to match the output level of the receiver to the expected level at the inputs of the final destination device. Important to note that each of those stages is independent of the other - sending line level to the transmitter, for example, doesn't NOT mean that you'll automatically get line level coming out of the receiver (or vice versa). You can feed the transmitter with a microphone and connect the receiver to either a mic level or a line level input. Or vice versa, feed the transmitter with a line level and still have the choice of desitnation for the receiver. As long as source and transmitter match each other, and receiver and destination match each other, everything will work fine.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 12:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Schwartz View Post
Last night at a concert, I was trying to run wireless out of the mixer using my G2EW100 wireless setup. No matter what output we tried, I got distortion and lots of white noise. I understand the difference between line and mic level, so is this setup just not feasible? I have done it before with success and do not understand why I was having so much trouble. Both the mic and the Receiver were turned down to -30db and still no luck. ANy suggestion to help avoid this in the future would be greatly appreciated.

Jon Schwartz
CA Video Productions
I guess you were plugging line level into the mic. input - and the mic. input is shoving plug-in power up the cable.

On evolution transmitters the mic. is connected tip and sleeve with no connection on the ring. The line is connected ring and sleeve with no connection on the tip.

I guess you were using the wrong cable.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 08:21 PM   #11
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Sennheiser transmitter inputs

So, if one took the Evolution Receiver's 3.5mm plug to XLR male cable typically used to go from receiver to camera, and used it with an XLR turnaround to be an input cable to the transmitter, would this be a mic level cable or line level cable?
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Old October 17th, 2008, 03:59 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
On evolution transmitters the mic. is connected tip and sleeve with no connection on the ring. The line is connected ring and sleeve with no connection on the tip.
John
I'm sorry but I just don't understand this statement. Could you possibly elaborate eg how do you connect a cable tip and sleeve.
Many thanks.
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Old October 17th, 2008, 05:00 AM   #13
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John
I'm sorry but I just don't understand this statement. Could you possibly elaborate eg how do you connect a cable tip and sleeve.
Many thanks.
When you look at a conventional plug, whether it's a 1/4 inch 'phone' plug or a 1/8 inch mini plug, you'll see one or two insulating bands towards the end of the metal shaft.

If there's one band, you have a "tip-sleeve" (TS) two-conductor plug usually used for mono, unbalanced cables. Unbalanced cables have two wires, signal and ground or shield, and in the plug the signal wire goes to the tip and the ground wire goes to the sleeve.

If you see two insulators you have a "tip-ring-sleeve" (TRS) three-conductor plug typically used for unbalanced stereo such as headphones or balanced mono connections such as line level from a mixer to monitor speakers. Unbalanced stereo cables have 3 conductors, left signal, right signal, and common ground - left goes to the tip, right goes to the ring, and ground to the sleeve. Balanced mono cables also have three conductors -- signal +, signal -, and ground -- and they're connected positive (or "signal hot") to tip, negative (or "signal cold") to ring, and ground to sleeve.

The cables in discussion here are an exception to those generic rules in that they are two-conductor cables wired into a three-conductor mini plug. They're available in two different wiring arrangments depending on whether you want to connect a mic level source or a line level source to the transmitter. If it's the cable intended to deliver a mic level signal to the transmitter, the plug is wired with the signal on the tip, ground on the sleeve, and the ring is not used. If it's the cable intended to deliver line level signals, the plug is wired with the signal on the ring and ground on the sleeve, the tip not being used. (In actual practice the unused connector is grounded to the sleeve to help prevent any noise from sneaking in.)
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Old October 17th, 2008, 10:04 AM   #14
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Steve
Thanks a million. Another absolutely brilliant post from you. That explains everything very well.
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Old October 17th, 2008, 02:01 PM   #15
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Steve
Thanks a million. Another absolutely brilliant post from you. That explains everything very well.
And saves me from having to answer. ;-D
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