Lapel Mic for $500 or Under - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 11th, 2008, 03:55 AM   #16
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
Can't say that I agree with Bill.

Sennheiser | Evolution G2 100 Series - UHF | EW112PG2 - B | B&H

This system gets VERY close. No, the mic isn't a Tram, or a Sanken. But that can easily be upgraded later. And it's $50 over your budget. But B&H isn't the cheapest place to buy these things anyway...

I picked up a set of these and a Countryman B3 last month and I am VERY pleased with the results.

Perrone,

Of all the low cost RF mics, the G2 is probably at the top of the pack. I've even recommended this very system for some clients who needed to add a wireless capability on a budget.

But NO wireless mic will ever be as dependable or sound as good at the same price point as a wired mic.

While the G2 is good, it, like virtually all wireless mic systems is much more prone than any wired, balanced system to RF interference, occasional dropouts, and even good ones like this will lull the inexperienced into thinking that because it performs really well in 80% of the situations it encounters that means you can reach for it when you find yourself in the 20% of situations where all but the best wireless rigs will fail miserably.

One shoot where some badly wired fluorescent light ballasts, some electric motors, or some other RF source screws up your radio mics and you'll be wishing you'd started off investing in that (much cheaper) wired lav that, combined with properly balanced audio lines, will get you the kind of audio you can work with in post without compromise.

Wireless mics have their place.

But for most of us who've been in the industry a long time firmly believe that place is where the specific circumstances REQUIRE wireless.

I don't know a working pro who, given the choice, won't reach for a wired lav over a wireless one if the circumstances allow.

But that's just me.

That does NOT mean these units are "bad." Just that a wired mic will provide a LOT more bang for the buck.

As a SECOND choice on a budget, the G2 is fine.

But I'll stand by my opinion that it's not a good FIRST choice.

YMMV.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2008, 10:17 AM   #17
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
"I am working with a AT4073a on a boom pole right now and I would like something that is comparable to that in a wireless set up."
Without bringing environmental noise, acoustics and camera framing into the equation, no wireless set up, (including Lectros & Zaxcoms) will have the quality of a wired boom mic.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2008, 11:00 AM   #18
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Bill and Rick are of course 100% correct. I generally take great pains to explain that my use of video gear may not mirror that of others. Because of my work, I am a solo operator most of the time, so I do not have a boom operator. On locked down shots like interviews, I put my wired mic on a stand out of the frame. But because I have to mic talent that walks around a stage or around a room, and I often have to frame wide, the wireless mic becomes a near necessity in over 75% of my work.

I am also not doing critical audio. A dropout here or there is not going to make or break my project. In fact, for many years I was shooting from the back of a 75ft room with the on-camera mic, and that was deemed "good enough" by the people asking me to film. I eventually convinced them to get me a shotgun to go on the camera, and have moved forward from there.

I did a test of my Countryman B3 last night against my ME66 for an upcoming project I have to do. I was very pleased with the sound of both, and don't forsee any issues with cutting these two together. The closest I am getting to "making movies" is doing these corporate videos. But honestly, it's good enough for me.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #19
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
you'll be wishing you'd started off investing in that (much cheaper) wired lav that, combined with properly balanced audio lines, will get you the kind of audio you can work with in post without compromise.
Bill can you recommend an industry standard (Sanken or Tram you said on your 1st post?) wired mic for a short film / documentary situation? Model numbers etc please.
Oliver Darden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 11th, 2008, 10:11 PM   #20
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 522
I just listened to a bunch of mics on this site that did a comparison (Audio In Close Up - Which Lavalier Should I Use?") and the Tram TR50B sounds REALLY great compared to the other mics. The other mics sound like lav mics, the TR50, to me at least, sounds pretty darn close to my shotgun mic. It's not as "fat" and bassy sounding as most I heard, its more flat and clean.

http://www.kenstone3.net/fcp_homepag...50Male.mp3.zip

If I get this mic can I upgrade it to a wireless set up later by buying the receivers and such?
Oliver Darden is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2008, 03:04 AM   #21
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Darden View Post
I just listened to a bunch of mics... the Tram TR50B sounds REALLY great compared to the other mics.

If I get this mic can I upgrade it to a wireless set up later by buying the receivers and such?
Yes you can. BUT, please note that some wireless receivers require specific ends. So adapting it to a Lectrosonic requires a different end than a Sennheiser. So plan ahead. Honestly, I'd approach it the other way. I'd look to see if there was a wired adapter for my wireless configured mic instead of the other way around.

Interesting that you liked the Tram more. I liked the DPAs, Voice Tech, and Countryman's more. And the Sanken Cos11x was just amazing. The Tram, Sanken, and Countryman mics are all industry standard workhorses in film and TV. Any of them will serve you well.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2008, 02:38 PM   #22
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Darden View Post
Bill can you recommend an industry standard (Sanken or Tram you said on your 1st post?) wired mic for a short film / documentary situation? Model numbers etc please.
Oliver,

If you WANT to push up to your $500 limit then the Sanken Cos 11 is a very fine choice.
Likewise the Tram TR-50.

Both are used VERY widely.

Personally, I own 4 hardwired lavs - all Sony's.

I have 2 ECM-77b mics and 2 ECM-44b mics. Each of them I've owned longer than Tram and Sanken has been a popular name in the industry - and I can't find any compelling reason to dump what I already own and buy something new.

The reason I own both is that the 77b mics are much more sensitive and have more "reach" than the 44s. That can be a good thing - OR a bad thing.

If I'm micing someone in a crowded retail environment, I'll typically reach for the 44s because it's precisely their relative LACK of sensitivity that will produce a recording that's more voice and less room.

In my studio, where the room is treated and the sound is nearly totally controlled with regard to echo, reverb, and room sound, I'll use the 77s because they'll provide a richer more detailed recording of the voice.

If I were starting out again, I think I'd start with the LESS sensitive omni lavilliers. Like the 44b. And same the extra money for something else.

Yes, they're bigger than the "micro" lavs popular today, but for most interview stuff I just don't care if there's a mic visible. Because I'm not trying to hid the fact that the talent is wired.

I just want a dependable workhorse good sounding mic that I can rely on.

Good luck with your choice.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2008, 02:49 PM   #23
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Davis View Post
If I were starting out again, I think I'd start with the LESS sensitive omni lavilliers. Like the 44b. And same the extra money for something else.

Yes, they're bigger than the "micro" lavs popular today, but for most interview stuff I just don't care if there's a mic visible. Because I'm not trying to hid the fact that the talent is wired.

I just want a dependable workhorse good sounding mic that I can rely on.

Good luck with your choice.
Bill makes an excellent point here. But I'll offer this.

I am NOT a sound guy. I need sound to do my videos. As such, I cannot justify a lot of audio gear to the people who pay the bills for me. Since I knew I'd be buying ONE Lav mic, I went for what was sure to be the hardest sell. A wireless mic that was easy to hide. Of course this has it's limitations. But it will be much easier for me to convert this to a wired setup, and far easier for me to un-hide my Countryman than had I gone the other direction first, and found myself in need of a wireless mic, that I could hide on talent.

If you can have a selection, then I think what Bill is saying is absolutely right. But if you only get one bite at the apple, you may want to choose the same path I did. Maybe not, but I thought it deserved saying.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 12th, 2008, 06:49 PM   #24
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank
Posts: 1,811
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Darden View Post
I just listened to a bunch of mics on this site that did a comparison (Audio In Close Up - Which Lavalier Should I Use?") and the Tram TR50B sounds REALLY great compared to the other mics. The other mics sound like lav mics, the TR50, to me at least, sounds pretty darn close to my shotgun mic. It's not as "fat" and bassy sounding as most I heard, its more flat and clean.

http://www.kenstone3.net/fcp_homepag...50Male.mp3.zip

If I get this mic can I upgrade it to a wireless set up later by buying the receivers and such?
I think that is a good choice. If you are on a budget and plan to get a wireless system later, you want to get a mic that will connect to the new wireless system and a detachable power supply.

For a budget, you are probably best to get the Sennheiser Evolution 100 system (or the updated model), so you would want a mic to plug into this system.

Here is the Tram TR50 with a detachable power supply for that system:
Tram | TR50 - Omni-Directional Lavalier | TR50BSETXL | B&H Photo

This is a good mic for all around use, because of it's small size and many attachment options. The power supply works with a battery or with phantom power with the battery removed.

A useful accessory that is not included is the Tram cage. It protects the mic very well when place under a layer of clothing. The cage comes in two versions, one with a smooth back and one with vampire clips on the back.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont....y=0&Go=submit
Jack Walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2008, 11:38 AM   #25
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: St. Catharines, ON
Posts: 63
I also prefer to stick with wired mics whenever possible. Usually you'll be fine with a wireless...but you can find yourself unable to shoot with sound if you can't find a free frequency to shoot on. I personally will only use wireless mics for ENG type situations, or if there is too much movement which could put your wire at risk. Wireless is perfect if you need to jump out of a truck and want your talent micced up so you can shoot right away, but even then I've had to scramble to find a frequency that other shooters aren't using.

As for a suggestion...I'm a big Sennheiser fan(I've never been disappointed by their designs or quality)...so I'd suggest the G2 Evolution series.
Matt Ratelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2008, 12:44 PM   #26
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260
Posts: 1,538
Lets not beat this to death here, but I think the summation is something like this.

The strong suit of a wired lav is DEPENDABILITY. Unless miss-treated or improperly rigged , you should expect clear, accurate recordings every time consistently - in all circumstances. The disadvantage is the inflexibility of being tethered to the camera.

The strong suit of the wireless lav is flexibility. Not being tethered to the camera is a distinct advantage in many situations. The disadvantage is that all but the top performing wireless rigs compromise sound quality to some degree when compared to wired mics. Sometimes that difference is totally acceptable and possibly even completely unimportant. Another disadvantage is that wireless mics are susceptible to interference in ways that properly wired mics simply are not.

So you have to judge what's most important to the kind of videos you make. If you value the flexibility of not being tethered over the pure audio performance and dependability - by all means go wireless.

If you're most commonly recording audio in a situation where you're wireless might be nice but not necessary, you can improve both quality and dependability by going wired and get the benefits of the added quality AND dependability. (And you can save money taking this path)

Neither is superior to the other. They're designed to meet somewhat different needs. And in the end, only YOU can decide which aspects are most important to the way YOU want or need to work.

End of story.
Bill Davis is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:10 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network