Audio/SFX into Minidisc recorder.

Marco Leavitt · January 28th, 2009, 02:33 PM

Sorry, but you have to do better than that. "Jack" can mean a lot of things. Is it 1/4" TRS maybe? You want the fewest number of adapters possible. I really recommend getting a regular XLR cable. From there you want a quality XLR adapter that has a transformer and keeps the signal balanced, such as this one -

Shure - A96F Camcorder Interface

Or you can get an adapter with faders (recommended), such as those made by SignVideo and Beachtek.

David Scattergood · January 28th, 2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

Sorry, but you have to do better than that. "Jack" can mean a lot of things. Is it 1/4" TRS maybe? You want the fewest number of adapters possible. I really recommend getting a regular XLR cable. From there you want a quality XLR adapter that has a transformer and keeps the signal balanced, such as this one -

Shure - A96F Camcorder Interface

Or you can get an adapter with faders (recommended), such as those made by SignVideo and Beachtek.

It is indeed a mono 1/4" TRS (didn't realise there were other 'Jacks' out there).
This then enters the only adapter which is the 1/4" TRS into the 3.5mm or 1/8" TRS (mini jack as I 'used' to refer to them as :)
I have a few XLR cables, so I'll look into the XLR adapters (although not at that price just yet) - I don't want to spend out unless I'm sure this will give me the signal/audio I'm clearly lacking at the moment (even if I tap the Sennhieser I'm not getting a thing). The mics are the only variables in this set up...it's quite frustrating.

Marco Leavitt · January 28th, 2009, 07:39 PM

All right, now I'm getting it. Is your adapter designed for headphones, by any chance? I've had unpredictable results going from mono to stereo with those. I'm assuming that you are only getting audio in one channel then? Assuming your mic is working properly (and it sounds like it is), I have to think it's something wiggy going on with your cable, adapter setup that the minidisc doesn't like in combination with the ME66. Maybe because of the plug in power from the minidisc? Odd that the Dynamic mic works. I'm betting a different cable/adapter will solve it. I've used the ME66 with the Shure adapter I linked to and minidisc many, many times and it has worked great. In addition to keeping the signal balanced, the adapter blocks DC voltage from the mic input and routes the signal to both sides. It's a great widget to keep around, and has saved me a couple of times when my other XLR adapter was getting interference.

David Scattergood · January 29th, 2009, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

All right, now I'm getting it. Is your adapter designed for headphones, by any chance? I've had unpredictable results going from mono to stereo with those. I'm assuming that you are only getting audio in one channel then? Assuming your mic is working properly (and it sounds like it is), I have to think it's something wiggy going on with your cable, adapter setup that the minidisc doesn't like in combination with the ME66. Maybe because of the plug in power from the minidisc? Odd that the Dynamic mic works. I'm betting a different cable/adapter will solve it. I've used the ME66 with the Shure adapter I linked to and minidisc many, many times and it has worked great. In addition to keeping the signal balanced, the adapter blocks DC voltage from the mic input and routes the signal to both sides. It's a great widget to keep around, and has saved me a couple of times when my other XLR adapter was getting interference.

I purchased these cheap adapters as 'jack to mini jack' adapters many years ago - not specifically for headphones, more a generic object. I've used them in the past when filming (when I started out using a small camcorder and the Shure SM58 for vocals). Any slight nudge and you'd get the 'burst of noise' so I usually strapped this down to the camera with gaffer tape - worked ok at the time, but nothing like the results I'm getting with the ME66 and the camera with the XLR connections.

The Shure, in this combination, works with stereo (one channel only) and mono, but neither mono or stereo has any bearing on the ME66.
I might pop into a sound equipment store and see if they have better leads/adapters. If it is indeed just a case of picking up a better lead/adapter then that will save me going down the portable phantom power route (although that ART, although you're not too keen on these yourself, at under £40 is a possibility).

I've attached a couple of pics in the set up if you have time to take a quick look - it might make more sense than me 'beating around the bush'!

Appreciate your help.

Cheers.

Marco Leavitt · January 29th, 2009, 08:27 AM

I think clearly the adapter setup you are using is way too much of a liability, and should be replaced regardless. Going from male mono to a stereo input has given me problems before such as what you are experiencing. It's just not designed to do what you are trying to do. I can't stress enough the importance of getting a quality XLR adapter. There's also no guarantee (or even reason to believe) that using phantom instead of the onboard power of the ME66 will improve things.

Steve House · January 29th, 2009, 11:03 AM

I'll agree with Marco. Proper XLR to mini adapters are available, a little pricey to buy ready made but you're going to get the right thing. See Remote Audio: DV Cam Cables for examples

David Scattergood · January 29th, 2009, 11:38 AM

Thanks folks. I wouldn't mind spending a little on this type of pro cable if I knew that would work (it's a small bonus that I don't have to splash out on a Audio recorder, by using this old, long since used Mini Disc).
If I can find a local shop that stocks these then I'll take the mic and minidisc player in and test it whilst there. Slightly baffled that the Shure works fine (although the connection with that adapter is the wrong side of awful) and the ME66 (with power on) doesn't.

Cheers.

Marco Leavitt · January 29th, 2009, 11:44 AM

Definitely see if there is a store that specializes in location audio. Around here, stores that service the installation audio industry and musicians don't have a clue about this type of stuff. Maybe it's different there. Remember, the adapter must block DC voltage. Don't settle for anything less or you will continue to have problems.

Gary Nattrass · January 29th, 2009, 11:46 AM

I have used a sony mini disc and stereo mic for sound FX collection for over 15 years.

I have two sony minidisc recorders and a sony M/S mic like this Sony ECMMS957 Digital Microphone - variable angle: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

I now have a sony D50 but use the same mic, all of the sound fx for five years I did on The Bill and other main dramas such as Heartbeat were all recorded this way.

Marco Leavitt · January 29th, 2009, 11:50 AM

Gary, does that mic draw power from the mic input, or does it take a battery?

David Scattergood · January 29th, 2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

Gary, does that mic draw power from the mic input, or does it take a battery?

Thanks folks.
Gary - I'm impressed you serviced such shows from that set up (was the lead a 'all in one' 1/4" XLR to 1/8" TRS or was there an adapter there somewhere?). I'm itching to get started now (I have a plethora of SFX on my hard drives but there's nothing like creating your own is there?). It must be the lead (or more likely the cr*ppy adapter) - I remembered I tried to put this same mic through into an Audio Channel in Logic Pro via my iMac - nothing at all (power on the mic was on etc). The Shure SM58 worked fine.
I recently carried out some voice over but this time putting the ME66 through a mixing desk (which has phantom powered channels...not required as the mic's own did this) which worked a treat. So perhaps it's the cheap cable or plastic (50p?!) adapter which is foxing somehow cancelling out the phantom powered ME66?!?
Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to visit an Audio shop in the vicinity.
Cheers.

[EDIT] actually Gary I can see from the pic that the 1/8" trs/mini jack is part of the cable.

Gary Nattrass · January 30th, 2009, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Leavitt

Gary, does that mic draw power from the mic input, or does it take a battery?

It has a AA battery on-board, its an M/S mic with three capsules one forward or side facing (you can move them inside the mic) and two as a figure of eight. The M/S process is done inside the mic and it outputs A/B via a five pin XLR to a small jack that will go straight into the mini disc or D50.

You can also vary the width of the stereo image via a switch and the M/S matrix is the best for recording as it will have good mono compatibility.
I have always used AMS Neve Logic and DFC digital consoles and they have a set of controls that allow you to adjust the width of a stereo signal or make it mono.

Recording sound FX to mini disc for The Bill and other dramas including Touch of Frost etc has been very good with this set-up and it is nice and portable.
I also always carry a mini disc and a smaller sony M/S mic just in case I wish to grab something whilst out and about.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...pf_rd_i=468294
I stopped doing The Bill four years ago but the sound FX are still in the library and are still used by John York and Richard Churchill.

David Scattergood · January 30th, 2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Nattrass

It has a AA battery on-board, its an M/S mic with three capsules one forward or side facing (you can move them inside the mic) and two as a figure of eight. The M/S process is done inside the mic and it outputs A/B via a five pin XLR to a small jack that will go straight into the mini disc or D50.

You can also vary the width of the stereo image via a switch and the M/S matrix is the best for recording as it will have good mono compatibility.
I have always used AMS Neve Logic and DFC digital consoles and they have a set of controls that allow you to adjust the width of a stereo signal or make it mono.

Recording sound FX to mini disc for The Bill and other dramas including Touch of Frost etc has been very good with this set-up and it is nice and portable.
I also always carry a mini disc and a smaller sony M/S mic just in case I wish to grab something whilst out and about.
Sony Microphone: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo
I stopped doing The Bill four years ago but the sound FX are still in the library and are still used by John York and Richard Churchill.

Is that smaller sony mic good for picking up ambience rather than/as well as close up Gary? Be good to have something like that in my pocket/'manbag' rather than lugging the ME66 around - and is that one battery powered ( I couldn't see anywhere to suggest it is)?

Anyway - I haven't the time to pop in to the Audio/Sound shop today, but hopefully I can be there tomorrow. I will let you know if I find a solution. On a positive note, i ordered a battery just the other day (2.99) and it has this morning turned up...so at least the Mini Disc is now mobile (the previous battery had ceased up completely)!

Cheers.

Gary Nattrass · January 30th, 2009, 08:01 AM

Smaller mic also has an AA battery and is good for ambience and close up stuff, less range than the larger one but still good for general FX and recording. It is also M/S and has the 90 or 120 deg settings.

David Scattergood · January 30th, 2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Nattrass

Smaller mic also has an AA battery and is good for ambience and close up stuff, less range than the larger one but still good for general FX and recording. It is also M/S and has the 90 or 120 deg settings.

Thanks Gary - something I might very soon add to my arsenal (isn't that a Morrissey album?!) and I might look into the slightly larger one too (although with having the ME66 perhaps that's a little overkill.

January 29th, 2009, 11:03 AM	#21
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	I'll agree with Marco. Proper XLR to mini adapters are available, a little pricey to buy ready made but you're going to get the right thing. See Remote Audio: DV Cam Cables for examples __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

January 29th, 2009, 11:46 AM	#24
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	I have used a sony mini disc and stereo mic for sound FX collection for over 15 years. I have two sony minidisc recorders and a sony M/S mic like this Sony ECMMS957 Digital Microphone - variable angle: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo I now have a sony D50 but use the same mic, all of the sound fx for five years I did on The Bill and other main dramas such as Heartbeat were all recorded this way. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

January 30th, 2009, 08:01 AM	#29
Gary Nattrass Trustee Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornsay Durham UK Posts: 1,992	Smaller mic also has an AA battery and is good for ambience and close up stuff, less range than the larger one but still good for general FX and recording. It is also M/S and has the 90 or 120 deg settings. __________________ Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

January 28th, 2009, 02:33 PM	#16
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Sorry, but you have to do better than that. "Jack" can mean a lot of things. Is it 1/4" TRS maybe? You want the fewest number of adapters possible. I really recommend getting a regular XLR cable. From there you want a quality XLR adapter that has a transformer and keeps the signal balanced, such as this one - Shure - A96F Camcorder Interface Or you can get an adapter with faders (recommended), such as those made by SignVideo and Beachtek.

January 28th, 2009, 07:39 PM	#18
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	All right, now I'm getting it. Is your adapter designed for headphones, by any chance? I've had unpredictable results going from mono to stereo with those. I'm assuming that you are only getting audio in one channel then? Assuming your mic is working properly (and it sounds like it is), I have to think it's something wiggy going on with your cable, adapter setup that the minidisc doesn't like in combination with the ME66. Maybe because of the plug in power from the minidisc? Odd that the Dynamic mic works. I'm betting a different cable/adapter will solve it. I've used the ME66 with the Shure adapter I linked to and minidisc many, many times and it has worked great. In addition to keeping the signal balanced, the adapter blocks DC voltage from the mic input and routes the signal to both sides. It's a great widget to keep around, and has saved me a couple of times when my other XLR adapter was getting interference.

January 29th, 2009, 08:27 AM	#20
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	I think clearly the adapter setup you are using is way too much of a liability, and should be replaced regardless. Going from male mono to a stereo input has given me problems before such as what you are experiencing. It's just not designed to do what you are trying to do. I can't stress enough the importance of getting a quality XLR adapter. There's also no guarantee (or even reason to believe) that using phantom instead of the onboard power of the ME66 will improve things.

January 29th, 2009, 11:38 AM	#22
David Scattergood Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Manchester, UK Posts: 755	Thanks folks. I wouldn't mind spending a little on this type of pro cable if I knew that would work (it's a small bonus that I don't have to splash out on a Audio recorder, by using this old, long since used Mini Disc). If I can find a local shop that stocks these then I'll take the mic and minidisc player in and test it whilst there. Slightly baffled that the Shure works fine (although the connection with that adapter is the wrong side of awful) and the ME66 (with power on) doesn't. Cheers.

January 29th, 2009, 11:44 AM	#23
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Definitely see if there is a store that specializes in location audio. Around here, stores that service the installation audio industry and musicians don't have a clue about this type of stuff. Maybe it's different there. Remember, the adapter must block DC voltage. Don't settle for anything less or you will continue to have problems.

January 29th, 2009, 11:50 AM	#25
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Gary, does that mic draw power from the mic input, or does it take a battery?