Using Juicedlink/Beachtek to patch into soundboards? at DVinfo.net

Brian Boyko · February 4th, 2009, 05:28 PM

Does this seem like a wacky idea for you? You want good sound, but you're shooting a rock concert and the band specifically wants "that handheld look." Would this work out?

Soundboard ---XLR---> Beachtek/Juicedlink ---Mini---> Wireless transmitter ---Wireless---> Wireless Reciever ---Mini---> Camera.

It sounds like it should work, but it also sounds like there's a hell of a lot of points of failure there...

Steve House · February 4th, 2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Boyko

Does this seem like a wacky idea for you? You want good sound, but you're shooting a rock concert and the band specifically wants "that handheld look." Would this work out?

Soundboard ---XLR---> Beachtek/Juicedlink ---Mini---> Wireless transmitter ---Wireless---> Wireless Reciever ---Mini---> Camera.

It sounds like it should work, but it also sounds like there's a hell of a lot of points of failure there...

How about soundboard->plug-on wireless transmitter connected directly into the board's XLR output? No need to go thru an XLR adapter to get to a mini to plug into the transmitter. Or cables are available that let you take a 1/4 or XLR output directly into a body-pack style transmitter, again without requiring a Beach or other adapter. For example, the Sennheiser G2 system has the CI 1-N "guitar" cable that takes a 1/4 to 1/8 and the CL 1-N that takes XLR-F to 1/8.

Marco Leavitt · February 5th, 2009, 12:09 PM

Steve, are you sure sticking a plug-on transmitter directly into an XLR socket like that would work? I thought those things used the body of the mix as an antenna? In any case, I think using a dedicated cable would be better if you were to use a regular bodypack transmitter, as you say. I have one for my AT system, although it would probably require an attenuator in the middle of the chain. I would be tempted to use a dedicated recorder rather than wireless in this situation if the concert was very large. Syncing music in post is fairly easy.

Jeffery Magat · February 5th, 2009, 12:51 PM

I'm not quite sure why the butt-plug would be a problem when tapping into the board. If it actually uses the body of the mixer as an antenna, they are probably using shoddy equipment. When I do TV media events, I see like 3 or 4 of these stuck into the press box. I'd imagine those camera guys would not be having any problems.

Like Steve said, Soundboard -> wireless tx -> wireless rx -> camera. Just obtain the proper cables. Make sure you have a 1/4" adapter somewhere as well. Just in case an XLR output is not available.

Jay Massengill · February 5th, 2009, 03:02 PM

The plug-on transmitters do use the mic body as part of the antenna, but they still transmit pretty well without it. It's possible it could affect a cheap mixer with its RF output, but people do hook them up that way. (Aren't those pressbox outputs usually buffered to prevent problems like that?)
Some plug-ons also output phantom power from low voltages up to full 48v depending on the model. That will affect the output of the mixer and can also be noticed in the master metering giving incorrect levels.

Battle Vaughan · February 5th, 2009, 05:41 PM

FWIW I use the Sennheiser G2 series xlr transmitter (the cheap one without phantom power) in multboxes at press conferences all the time with no problem. If the board is line level, set the input level to -30db and watch your input level on the receiver....or use an in-line attenuator..../Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

Rick Reineke · February 5th, 2009, 06:46 PM

"Most" house sound boards XLR outs' are +4 and the 1/4" TRS outs for that matter, one will most likely need an attenuator (In-line pad or whatever) The Sennheiser's butt-plug's input stage will likely overload, regardless of the transmitters digital input adj. This goes for the bodypack transmitter as well... Even using the Ring/Shield configuration (-10dB )on the bodypack TRS mini-plug, a +4dB input will most certainly overdrive the input stage.

Brian Boyko · February 6th, 2009, 01:38 PM

I tested a "simple" version of this last night (I just got my new Juicedlink this morning, so I was still stuck with a mini-only path).

I was recording an improv comedy show on a stage. Normally we use camera mounted shotguns like the ATR55 and the Rode Videomic. Instead, however, I took my AT Pro24 condenser mic, and literally duct-taped it to the ceiling above the performers. I connected it to a Sennheiser EW bodypack transmitter, and brought the bodypack reciever over to the camera. I didn't think it would work - but it did! I think this is the best audio that Coldtowne Theatre has ever recorded.

I'll get a sample soon enough!

Noah Cook · February 8th, 2009, 01:58 PM

I think it would be easier to get a Zoom H4 or Microtrack. That way you can set up the recorder ahead of time and not have to worry about your wireless link, plus you can use the pro24 as a backup in case something goes out. The downside is having to sync in post of course.

Brian Boyko · February 9th, 2009, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah Cook

I think it would be easier to get a Zoom H4 or Microtrack. That way you can set up the recorder ahead of time and not have to worry about your wireless link, plus you can use the pro24 as a backup in case something goes out. The downside is having to sync in post of course.

Indeed; one of the problems with that is that syncing in post is literally too much work for me to do for a project that's this unimportant. Hate to say it, but this type of stuff, I just like to grab my camera, record it, bring it into Vegas, adjust the gain and offset using the scopes, and let the thing render and post the next morning.

February 4th, 2009, 05:28 PM	#1
Brian Boyko Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 773	Using Juicedlink/Beachtek to patch into soundboards? Does this seem like a wacky idea for you? You want good sound, but you're shooting a rock concert and the band specifically wants "that handheld look." Would this work out? Soundboard ---XLR---> Beachtek/Juicedlink ---Mini---> Wireless transmitter ---Wireless---> Wireless Reciever ---Mini---> Camera. It sounds like it should work, but it also sounds like there's a hell of a lot of points of failure there... __________________ Equip: Panny GH1, Canon HG20, Juicedlink, AT897, Sennh. EW/GW100, Zoom H2, Vegas 8.1

February 6th, 2009, 01:38 PM	#8
Brian Boyko Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 773	I tested a "simple" version of this last night (I just got my new Juicedlink this morning, so I was still stuck with a mini-only path). I was recording an improv comedy show on a stage. Normally we use camera mounted shotguns like the ATR55 and the Rode Videomic. Instead, however, I took my AT Pro24 condenser mic, and literally duct-taped it to the ceiling above the performers. I connected it to a Sennheiser EW bodypack transmitter, and brought the bodypack reciever over to the camera. I didn't think it would work - but it did! I think this is the best audio that Coldtowne Theatre has ever recorded. I'll get a sample soon enough! __________________ Equip: Panny GH1, Canon HG20, Juicedlink, AT897, Sennh. EW/GW100, Zoom H2, Vegas 8.1

February 5th, 2009, 12:09 PM	#3
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Steve, are you sure sticking a plug-on transmitter directly into an XLR socket like that would work? I thought those things used the body of the mix as an antenna? In any case, I think using a dedicated cable would be better if you were to use a regular bodypack transmitter, as you say. I have one for my AT system, although it would probably require an attenuator in the middle of the chain. I would be tempted to use a dedicated recorder rather than wireless in this situation if the concert was very large. Syncing music in post is fairly easy.

February 5th, 2009, 12:51 PM	#4
Jeffery Magat Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 186	I'm not quite sure why the butt-plug would be a problem when tapping into the board. If it actually uses the body of the mixer as an antenna, they are probably using shoddy equipment. When I do TV media events, I see like 3 or 4 of these stuck into the press box. I'd imagine those camera guys would not be having any problems. Like Steve said, Soundboard -> wireless tx -> wireless rx -> camera. Just obtain the proper cables. Make sure you have a 1/4" adapter somewhere as well. Just in case an XLR output is not available.

February 5th, 2009, 03:02 PM	#5
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	The plug-on transmitters do use the mic body as part of the antenna, but they still transmit pretty well without it. It's possible it could affect a cheap mixer with its RF output, but people do hook them up that way. (Aren't those pressbox outputs usually buffered to prevent problems like that?) Some plug-ons also output phantom power from low voltages up to full 48v depending on the model. That will affect the output of the mixer and can also be noticed in the master metering giving incorrect levels.

February 5th, 2009, 05:41 PM	#6
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	FWIW I use the Sennheiser G2 series xlr transmitter (the cheap one without phantom power) in multboxes at press conferences all the time with no problem. If the board is line level, set the input level to -30db and watch your input level on the receiver....or use an in-line attenuator..../Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

February 5th, 2009, 06:46 PM	#7
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,038	"Most" house sound boards XLR outs' are +4 and the 1/4" TRS outs for that matter, one will most likely need an attenuator (In-line pad or whatever) The Sennheiser's butt-plug's input stage will likely overload, regardless of the transmitters digital input adj. This goes for the bodypack transmitter as well... Even using the Ring/Shield configuration (-10dB )on the bodypack TRS mini-plug, a +4dB input will most certainly overdrive the input stage.

February 8th, 2009, 01:58 PM	#9
Noah Cook New Boot Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: MA Posts: 8	I think it would be easier to get a Zoom H4 or Microtrack. That way you can set up the recorder ahead of time and not have to worry about your wireless link, plus you can use the pro24 as a backup in case something goes out. The downside is having to sync in post of course.