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Old December 7th, 2003, 12:11 AM   #1
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Using a Plug on Transmitter with a mixer

I was wondering if it is possible to hook up a SKP100 plug-on transmitter so it sends the audio out of a mixer and to the cam, if I use the right receiver like the EK100 camera-mountable. Can this be done since the transmitter is meant to power a mic?
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Old December 7th, 2003, 12:50 AM   #2
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Yup, it is easy to do and works well. I use a XLR cable to give the transmitter some aerial to work with. The 18" cables work OK. If the mixer is next to something tall, I use a longer cable and run it up the object.

You can also drop the transmitter off the backside of powered PA speakers. They have a loop-through for line level feeds that are XLR in and out.

BTW, that transmitter does not power the microphone.
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Old December 7th, 2003, 05:56 PM   #3
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this is perfect timing, i was getting ready to post the same question...

i have a friend who is a circus performer and he told me that they had a tv station come to videotape the show for a promo thing and that they put something off of the sound board and put the sound into the camera via wireless...

so, i'm getting ready to buy my first wireless rig, looks like i'm going to be checking out the sennheiser eng 100 and 500 series.

so i want to make sure i understand this, i would take the thingie that is meant to go on the base of an xlr handhelp and put a cable from that to an xlr out on the sound board?

what other options are there? i don't have any experience with sound boards and the circus's often have fairly low-end stuff that is sort of cobbled together.

and you mention the line level feed out the back of PA speakers, is this always line level? is there a way to test this or more importantly, is there a danger of plugging into something you think is a line out and frying something?

i know i need to set the input on the camera for line level vs. mic but what else is there to check?

matthew
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Old December 7th, 2003, 06:25 PM   #4
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Matthew,
Mixer outputs, are only LINE level and not MIC level unless it says MIC (Mackie mixers for exemple do have a mic/line switch at the main outputs). Therefore I would recommend, to add a Direct Box to your Equipment list which will allow you to use line level sources with the Sennheiser plug-on transmitter which is MIC level input.

http://www.artroch.com/products_main...&show=Overview
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Old December 7th, 2003, 07:07 PM   #5
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ok, so the sennheiser adaptor that goes on the base of an xlr only does mic level.

that makes sense. i guess it was stupid to think that i could just put it into a line level device and then tell the camera to expect line level.

does sennheiser make a device for the eng 100 or 500 line that is specifically meant to transmit a line level back to the transmitter?

also, that box you sent me the link to (thanks!) why is these people have websites with so little real world info like where to buy it, or silly little details like the price?

i would love to get my hands on a pdf of the manual to read it before i buy one.

matthew
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Old December 7th, 2003, 07:09 PM   #6
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never mind. went back and read there site and found more info.

matthew
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Old December 7th, 2003, 07:51 PM   #7
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Most mixers have mic level output these days. A $50 Shure in-line attenuator will take care of the level problem it the one you want to plug into doesn't. They have 2 attenuators, one switchable at 10, 20, & 30 dB and one fixed at 50dB. I have both for the times when the sound guy hands me a very hot microphone level and I need to dump it a bit. Sometimes I need more than 50 dB of attenuation and yet the line-level setting (on a camera) will kill the signal all-together. Must be an impedance issue.

I've yet to find a Direct box with an XLR input. They are meant to hook guitars up, aren't they?
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Old December 7th, 2003, 09:01 PM   #8
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A direct box was recommended by a professional P.A. guy. The Direct box is most commonly used in guitar situations but is also used in Line/Mic situations (with different attenuation settings).

Behringer has a direct box with an XLR connection. Please check out 2.2 on the Behringer instructions for their DI100.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=212687&is=REG
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Old December 7th, 2003, 09:56 PM   #9
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<<<-- Most mixers have mic level output these days. -->>>

Mike,
Other then field mixers and the Mackie VLZ series mixers, I did not find sound boards with MIC level outs. I looked at Behringer, Phonic, some Soundcraft and Alesis, but did not have any luck.
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Old December 8th, 2003, 01:03 AM   #10
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Shure has them as do most of the portable units I think.

The big boards seem to have them too. I've hooked up to a fair number in the field.

Thanks for the info on the direct box. I spent a week looking for one with XLR inputs and had no luck. The Behringer is on order.
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Old December 8th, 2003, 12:01 PM   #11
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ok so that box looks great, $40 is hard to beat.

the stupid question is how do you measure what is coming out of the jack?

i am totally new to xlr and really worried about blowing out my equipment.

do you start with the lowest setting and go up?

so i just get an assortment of xlr cables of various flavors to be prepared and then cable the box in between the wireless mic base and the output of the soundboard/speaker?

matthew
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Old December 8th, 2003, 04:17 PM   #12
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Assume you are going to receive a line signal and then if the signal is too low, start removing attenuation until you get where you want to go.

If you can, ask the sound operator to send you a 0 dB tone so you can zero your meters at whatever level is appropriate for the recording system. Then as they (hopefully) manage their sound, they won't (hopefully) send too hot a signal to you.
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Old December 8th, 2003, 05:37 PM   #13
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yeah, the average thing i've done in the past is either a circus where the clown running audio (literally the clown!) doesn't know squat, or it is a public address system where it was setup and the people in charge of the event have no clue, the janitor points them to the mic and the volume control and much of the guts of it is locked up in a closet somewhere!

that is why it probably seems that i'm asking so many stupid questions, because the situations i've been in are pretty rough.

one was a circus in the bahamas where the "sound guy" was really a trumpet player who owned a mini-disc player/recorder and he got roped into going as the sound guy.

his equipment was less than garbage and he wound up running the show on my pocked sized md recorder that i had in my camera bag by coincidence.

i asked him to dupe the show to mini-disc for me and he wound up giving me something that sounded like it was speaker level, it was heavily distorted.

that is why i'm going for the ability to walk into most anything with a wireless transmitter/receiver and a collection of cables and adaptors that will let me take most anything and get it into the camera.

i need to put together a swiss army knife kit of audio cables/adaptors and the base knowledge to get me going and to help me decided what to try when it doesn't work.

matthew
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Old December 8th, 2003, 06:56 PM   #14
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I always try the sound guy for a direct plug-in but I almost always use the Sennheiser plug-on transmitter into a Beta58 with a fur-ball taped on top of a PA speaker with the ball half-peeking over the front.

It almost always sounds as good or better than the direct feed.

And frequently, the venue refuses to allow anyone to plug in.

At large public events, the sound people may put out a press-box that is basically a large collection of XLR outputs with a hefty buffer between those connectors and the sound system that feeds it. That way anyone can get a feed and the sound people don't have to worry about it.

Unfortunately, as you say, they worry about it too little during the setup too. Almost always feeds out somewhere between line and microphone levels. Hence the need for switchable attenuation.

Besides the Behringer direct box that is on its way, I always carry a ground isolator, a transformer isolator and several in-line attenuators. Plus all of the connection adaptors I can find.
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Old December 13th, 2003, 09:51 PM   #15
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Got the Behringer yesterday.

Sigh. Although their specs don't mention it, the input XLR is not balanced. Could cause some real problems with non-standard balanced outputs (which are out there).

So the in-line Shure adapters are still the safest way to go. Isolation transformer and as much attenuation as is required.
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