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Old December 7th, 2003, 06:00 PM   #1
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on camera mic's and shutgun/boom ?

ok, i have been gathering a ton of advice on here, i'm going to be going to b&h in a couple of weeks to pick out a camera and some audio gear.

i'm trying to make a short list of gear to test out and to pick from.

so far for camera it is either sony pd-170 or pan dvx-100(a)

for wireless audio it is pretty much sennheiser eng 100 or 500

the big question is on camera mic/boom/shotgun mic.

i know everyone has told me that if you aren't within 3 or 4 feet of the subject you won't get good audio and that a boom mic is the way to go.

for a lot of the stuff i'm going to do it is VERY impromptu, sort of run and gun documentary where i will use a lavalier wireless on the primary subject and having a second person to hold a boom mic just isn't going to be an option.

so, is it possible to find a mic that is both a decent size to put on the above cameras, and to use also for the occasions when i am able to setup a boom/shotgun mic?

i have a pretty decent budget but i would really love to be able to have a mic i can put on the camera and also use it for the boom/shutgun when able?

i would like to have 2 or 3 finalists that get high marks from folks who have them to sample at b&h

matthew
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Old December 7th, 2003, 09:13 PM   #2
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There are lots of choices. I would start in the audio section of B&H Photo with A and work your way to S.

Sennheisers ME64,66,67,416
AKG
AT

I know I've missed some.

They're all good, don't cheap out. Get the best you can afford.

I use an ME66/K6 on my 150's all the time and do a lot of run and gun interviews not just for weddings but other work as well and as long as I'm within a few feet of the subjuct it works fine.

Hopefully some others here with chime in with their experience using other mics but go to B&H and snoop around. There are lots and lots of mics and you can always google for info on them.

Good Luck,
Don
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Old December 8th, 2003, 12:42 AM   #3
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I shot some scenes with a Sennheiser ME66 in a Lightwave mount on camera and a ME66 on a boom. They were running into the two channels on my GL-2, through a Sign Video XLR-Pro. The ME66 on camera is good to about 3-4 feet. Then the boom takes over, as it is usually never further than that away. However, the on camera audio is very usable up to 10-15 feet away, if there isn't too much competition. It just isn't as good as the boomed mic. :)

For run and gun with the GL-2, I've gotten good results with the camera mounted ME66. It is such a hot mic, that you can turn up the audio and get usable recordings with quiet and far signals. It may not be perfect, but it sounds decent. If I really get far and have to increase the gain too much, I'll use Sonic Foundry's Noise Reduction Plug-In to clean it up. When I actually have time to set things up, I'll keep the ME66 on camera, but run a lav into the other channel.
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Old December 8th, 2003, 08:57 AM   #4
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I humbly reply, as I have no actual experience. However, I have been studying this question myself, ad nauseum...

The soon to be released 11" AT 897 shotgun ($280)
or, the AT 835b 14.5" shotgun ($240)

A beyerdynamics EA86 camera shoe shock mount ($30)

A Lightwave Equalizer screen (don't know exact model # for the 897, but for the 835b is the EQ-107) ($120-130).

An AT8415 Universal shock mount (for the boom pole) ($50)

A K&M 3.1' to 10'5' 3 section Aluminum Boompole ($120).

All prices are B&H prices.

HTH

Cheers.
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Old December 8th, 2003, 11:16 AM   #5
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For a low budget I'd reccomend the AT835b. I've found it to be less noisy than the more expensive K6/ME66 when used with the internal battery. The two mics are similar when used with phantom power.
Best,
Helen
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Old December 8th, 2003, 05:42 PM   #6
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i actually have a great budget, i just don't want to waste money, or have to get too many mic's up front.

my ultimate goal for getting started is a camera that is equally well on top of a pd-170 or dvx-100 as it is on a boom pole.

i would be really happy to find one camera that can do both for now and then get more later.

i'm pretty certain that i'm going to get the sennheiser eng 500 system with the lavalier transmitter as well as the SK500 BeltPack Transmitter so i can either use a handheld for interviews, or put that on a boom mic or use it to beam the sound back to me from the sound board.

for other projects i would love to have a great boom-mic and the lavalier running, but for a few of the projects i will be doing first i just won't have the extra help to do both, the lavalier and on-camera mic will HAVE to do.

matthew
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Old December 8th, 2003, 06:43 PM   #7
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The AT 8415 shock mount will work for the boom pole and camera mount. All you need is a $10 shoe adapter to mount the 8415. I wasn't impressed by the beyer mount at all. The AT 8415 mount and the adapter are metal and not cheap plastic.

Will the output of the AT835 be high enough for the camera preamps? That's the only reason I spent the extra on the Sennheiser. That new AT seems worth trying. it certainly knocks a few inches off the current crop of shotguns.

I'd buy your camera and try the mics yourself , if at all possible.
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Old December 8th, 2003, 06:50 PM   #8
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well thats a whole other thread, how the hell do you really test this stuff?

i always get to the store (or even if i get an eval to try out at home) and blank out on what to do with it.

the current plan was to goto b&h and choose camera (either pd-170 or dvx-100) leaning towards pd-170 right now and wireless audio senn-500 eng, and the shotgun mic/on camera mic - the me-66 with k6 ryote pistol grip looks like a good deal, but i need to hear it for myself.

matthew
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Old December 8th, 2003, 07:30 PM   #9
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If you can, do a side-by-side test between the AT835 and K6/ME66. I have both among my collection and I know which I prefer! The difference is so noticeable that there is no competition.

Best,
Helen
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Old December 8th, 2003, 11:06 PM   #10
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If you have the money, rethink the aluminum boom pole. I have both aluminum and a carbon fibre poles. The aluminum is just too heavy to use for extended periods of time unless you are buff and experienced. The extra $200 will seem like nothing at the end of a long day. The versions with the interior wiring are compelling but you soon learn that the cable slapping around inside does no good. Just wrap the cable and hold it down with hair balls.

Frequently, BTW, you can just end up handing even an inexperienced person the pistol grip and let them point the microphone with their arm. Quite good results and you lose the noise caused by the boom in a novice's hands.

I started out with the lightwave mini-sock on my 835B and the wind was so fierce that the microphone wires would hum. Finally broke down and bought the Light Wave Super-Mount and the blimp. Nice difference. The blimp is large enough that the plug-on transmitter fits right inside.

And as I say, the hand-held microphone is a lot easier for the inexperienced and weaker assistant to master.
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Old December 8th, 2003, 11:18 PM   #11
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Mike, do you know anything about the rycote blimp system ? if so how would you compare it to the Lightwave ? PROS/CONS
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Old December 9th, 2003, 06:08 AM   #12
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As far as carbon fibre fishpoles go, I like the K-Tek ones. B&H have started to sell them. However, aluminium fishpoles were the best you could get for decades, and we seemed to manage.

Best,
Helen
PS One of the things that often seems to be mis-translated is the names for windshields etc. I think of a blimp as almost any noise reduction jacket or cover, but is it used more specifically for mic windshields? Is is restricted to what I know as a zeppelin (a rigid-framed 'empty' fabric sausage) or is it more general? Oh, and what do you call a 'dead cat' (the hairy cover for a zeppelin) in the US? I've used a lot of Rycote and Sennheiser windshields, but no Lightwave yet.
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Old December 9th, 2003, 03:41 PM   #13
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Aluminum is great but Carbon Fibre is nicer to hold for a long time. Even I abandon technology after a while! :-))))

I have not compared the Rycote to the Light Wave. I've handled both and own a Light Wave. The Light Wave works OK but I think Rycote has a few more goodies.

BTW, don't even think about buying a Light Wave aluminum boom pole. I did and it has never been right. I much prefer my PSC carbon fibre pole. It is made exactly right except for one thing.

If I knew what I know now, I'd have bought a pole with a side exit for the internal cable. The bottom or butt exit is hard on cables and connectors. You have to use a right-angle XLR connector or the cable will get wiped out very quickly. Cause everyone wants to stand the load on the pole bottom. One of the manufacturers makes a side-exit XLR connector that I'd really appreciate if I had it.

Blimp or Zepplin is the same thing AFAIK. I tend to use the terms in use by the manufacturers although they do vary a bit.
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Old December 9th, 2003, 04:14 PM   #14
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Mike Rehmus wrote:'One of the manufacturers makes a side-exit XLR connector that I'd really appreciate if I had it.'

K-Tek's range of accessories include side exits for cabled poles.


Best,
Helen
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Old December 9th, 2003, 10:29 PM   #15
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Audio Technica makes a cable with a right angle female neutrik connector which is pretty rugged for boom pole use

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=262154&is=REG

The K-Tek right angle is a custom smaller profile connector but I dont feel that is can really handle a lot of abuse.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=292956&is=REG
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