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Old January 28th, 2004, 09:36 AM   #16
 
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Martin,
Diane is running a Mac. Power is derived for the M-Audio and Echo boxes via firewire. PC's don't do that, unfortunately.
Jay brings up a couple good points, another benefit of the Firewire box is that you DO have standalone control with a wall wart,and the pre's work for 2 of the 8 outputs, thereby allowing signal to be directly routed to camera.
I disagree with reading Jay's book on matching signal at mixer to camera, because Jay doesn't go into fullscale vs VU. On pages 58-60, he touches it, but it's much, much more complex than he presents it there, and by those descriptions alone, you'll have a 20dB over signal at the camera while seeing zero at the mixer. I was surprised to not see the ATSC spec in the book, it's been 5 years since spec was proposed, almost 3 since implemented. Jay's book is valuable, no doubt, but on that particular issue, which plagues DV daily, he didn't provide enough information, IMO.
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Old January 28th, 2004, 02:30 PM   #17
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>I just wanted to come back and say, that any problems that >existed with USB audio in the windows 98/me days have been >fixed.

Martin,

This is not true. Perhaps your particular device works well, but as a member of the nVidia audio driver development team, the word is that USB audio glitches, even on Windows XP. USB 1.x glitches all the time. USB 2.0 is better, but still glitches. Any USB 1.x devices connected to USB 2.0 drag the entire bus down to USB1 speed. Apparently, Microsoft has a patch to fix some USB issues, but that software is not released. Firewire seems to be much better. If you have a particular solution that works for you, let us know about the specifics.
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Old January 28th, 2004, 04:05 PM   #18
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Gints,

I relent. Y'all are right, if I were buying right now, I'd go with firewire also*. The comparable M-audio systems are only $100 different and the benefits outway that price. As long as everything else works the same, which I haven't examined.

But to answer your question. I use the M-audio USB Duo. It works fine. I've left it rolling for as much as a half hour with no signs of problems. I use it both into Vegas and into Audition.

I've only recorded one side into the edit tool in Audition. That is the way I usually use it.

It draws power through a walwort, 9v AC oddly enough. It connects through USB only and works as my A/D and D/A. But by pressing the "standalone" button I can directly monitor both the s/pdif outs and the line outs.

*One other thing I would consider would be the tascam USB systems. Again the firewire system from tascam is much nicer, but it's also substantially more expensive. They seem to feel if you are only using 2 in 2 out then usb is fine. Their systems are nice because they include a great control panel. But only the firewire unit is automated, and it's the only one that supplies phantom.
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Old January 28th, 2004, 04:54 PM   #19
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>Diane is running a Mac. Power is derived for the M-Audio and >Echo boxes via firewire. PC's don't do that, unfortunately.

Douglas,

I have a cheap Firewire card on my PC that does the job.

P.S. Thanks for the cool articles on achieving a Film Look with Vegas !
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Old January 28th, 2004, 04:58 PM   #20
 
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REALLY? A card that is delivering full power to an audio device from a laptop? I didn't know it was doable in the PC world. Who's card is it? The ADS doesn't pass power via the cardbus, but I stand corrected, someone has one. I'd like to give it a review if it's also OHCI and a cardbus.
You are welcome for the articles, thanks for reading them!
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Old January 29th, 2004, 07:24 AM   #21
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laundry list?

Thanks Jay, all.

So far, I've only purchased an ATpro7a lav (and have an XLR adaptor). I am contemplating

a wireless system
a sohtgun or other boomable mic

an analog line level is a characteristic to look for in a DAT, I take it. good idea re feeding it to camera as well. I am a paranoid when it comes to audio.

I like all of the suggestions. Can I impose upon you for a laundry list of "good to haves" and I'll take it from there?

M box/Echo--where to get/research
mixer recco for beginners/interviews

My son has protools but I do not know how/if to use this in pre-production...it's available to me, though...

Thanks. You've all been very helpful.
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Old January 29th, 2004, 08:43 AM   #22
 
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Going backwards from your post;
If you have FCP 4, you likely wouldn't/couldn't need ProTools. FCP has very nice audio tools now, and coupled with Peak, you can accomplish most everything you need right in FCP.

Nice to haves?
1. M-Audio 410 or Echo Fire8
2. Audio Technica 897 (great for V/O work, too)
3. Peak. Record production audio straight to it.
or
MD player, DAT machine, iRiver, or other high quality digital device. A non-linear device is best as it's a time-saver, but quality isn't going to be an issue. There will be those exclaiming the need for very high quality recording devices. I'm usually one of them. That said, for dialog/walla, ambiences, background audio, you don't need a high end device because of the middle bandwidth of the human voice. If you want to deal with instruments and capture their nuances, then you need better gear than an MD recorder.
We recorded the 3 Tenors direct, same with Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Straight to hard drive. A backup was sent to tape. Tape actually had a problem. Hard drive did not. For me, this is very common now. We have NNovia belt drives to capture video, (they make the CapDV for Laird) and capture audio regularly to these or to the laptop whether it's a Powerbook or PC, using Echo Layla, Mona, or M-Audio 410.
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Old January 29th, 2004, 10:09 AM   #23
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I take it Peak is software? Bias comes with FCP/Toast Audio programs I already have...I was considering soundsoap, and anything requiring real work/finesse I'd take to a pro...

Researched the M Audio 410. It DOES look nice. I put this between my mac and my recording device, correct? And it let
s me add a hard drive, monitor directly from headphones, and so on?

Does it do the same without being connected to the mac (I assume yes, if I have a firewire recorder, for example...)

First search yielded a price of $349.00 How does that sound?

Thanks for the mic recommends, Douglas.

Know any great sound guys in St. Louis, Missouri??


Diane
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Old January 29th, 2004, 10:14 AM   #24
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Do I assume all products like the 410 has XLR connectors? I cannot tell from the product picture I am looking at...

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Old January 29th, 2004, 10:23 AM   #25
 
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XLR, 1/4" inputs, TRS 1/4 outputs. You can monitor via 2 sets of headphones. (2 people can monitor at once)
Just to clarify, the 410 connects TO your computer, and your computer is your recording device. If you use a recording device, say...a DAT or iRiver, or other tool, you could use a 410 as well, but that's sort of a waste. you might as well just buy a preamp in that event.
Bias-Inc makes Peak. (and deck) Bias also makes Sound Soap and Sound Soap Pro, which are both noise reduction applications that stand alone or work as plugins to FCP or Peak.
Actually, there are lots of good sound guys in St. Louis. I'll look thru my partner's rolodex and find some if you need a good guy.
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Old January 29th, 2004, 11:09 AM   #26
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>>Actually, there are lots of good sound guys in St. Louis. I'll look thru my partner's rolodex and find some if you need a good guy.<<

Yes, I'd very much like that. I'd prefer a freelancer or a stand-alone guy versus someone working through a production house, although the good ones there are nice to know about, too.

Thanks
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