Scenario: outdoor "room" of people

Marcia Janine Galles · February 1st, 2004, 06:45 PM

Jay, I can pull phantom off my DVX. My interest in the ME64/62 was just that I already have the 66, and: A) I like not having anything else pull from the camera battery, if possible; plus, B) I was trying to save a few bucks if I could by sharing the K9. But it sounds like you all think these other options have superior sound pick up, which is more important. (Though the bucks are adding up.)

Just out of curiosity, if I were to go with the NT5, since it comes in pairs as you say, is there any problem with using two? Will they phase/mess each other up if within a certain range? If so, how far apart would they need to be set to avoid that? I was just thinking about the potential occasional crummy weather, since a sudden (loud) downpour in the Sierras isn't unheard of. Stuff like that. I'd have to have two stands, booms, etc., but I have several stands anyway, and Gitzo makes a cheap ($84) boom pole (the Weekender, ,I think. The quality of the boom shouldn't matter too much if it's stationary, right?) So in theory, I could set up two, one at 1/3 the way across the room and one at 2/3. See, I just don't have a sense as to what's overkill in this scenario, versus it'll be iffy at best, so just punt. Course, TWO mics/NT5's means I've got to have an external recording device, cuz the mic on the speaker then makes three. (Arghhh!) I've looked into the Marantz and others, but again, I'm doing my best to not go completely broke here, and sticking to two feeds = cheaper overall.

I swear, this stuff is making me crazy. Course, my husband would say going crazy isn't a concern as I went crazy long ago. :-)

As far as a handheld/wireless to pass around, if I can get away with it, or rather, if any of the above options will really give me passable audio, I'd prefer to just have the speaker on a wireless lav and the other mic(s) wired. I'd like the doc to stay as natural as possible, and it seems like having them fumbling around with the hand held kind of interupts the flow. But again, if what I gets without resorting to that turns out to not be useable, because they're too far away, handheld it is.

Time to take a break and go watch the Super Bowl halftime commercials...

Jay Massengill · February 2nd, 2004, 01:13 PM

I think sticking with just the wireless lav on the presenter and a single mic for the crowd is a good plan.
You're correct, having two mics in the crowd would require either keeping them separated and needing an extra recorder, or mixing them live with someone dedicated to doing this correctly in order to alleviate the phasing and additional ambient pickup. Staying away from all that would be simpler for sure.
I also agree that having a wireless to pass among the crowd would run against your documentary feel. Yes you see this in docs all the time, but I still think if you can get satisfactory sound without it you'll be better off. If you feel like a single wired mic is just going to be too distant you may have to go wireless handheld but that will be your judgement call.
I think the ME64 will be fine, basically I was just offering fairly equal alternatives in case you knew of a cheaper source. The draw of phantom on the camera should be very minimal, but it is a small additional load so using your K6 and adding the 64 seems like a good plan with what you already have.
Most any good mic stand with regular 36-inch boom should be fine for placement. Using a long boom on a sand-bagged stand would get you closer, but isn't really needed. You really want to be aiming into their faces for a group, rather than pointing so much down from above. Obviously, it's best to have the mic between the presenter and the audience, so you may have to cheat a little to one side to keep from blocking him.
As a reminder, I think both DSE and I are in agreement that having a good operator and using your ME66 would actually be best, but you have a better idea of who you can depend on.

Marcia Janine Galles · February 2nd, 2004, 01:33 PM

Thanks, Jay. You guys have been a huge help and really increased my level of understanding about mics, set ups, and such. Been cranking through Jay Rose's book. Much still to learn, but I'm getting there thanks to patient people like you.

Have a good one.

February 1st, 2004, 06:45 PM	#16
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Jay, I can pull phantom off my DVX. My interest in the ME64/62 was just that I already have the 66, and: A) I like not having anything else pull from the camera battery, if possible; plus, B) I was trying to save a few bucks if I could by sharing the K9. But it sounds like you all think these other options have superior sound pick up, which is more important. (Though the bucks are adding up.) Just out of curiosity, if I were to go with the NT5, since it comes in pairs as you say, is there any problem with using two? Will they phase/mess each other up if within a certain range? If so, how far apart would they need to be set to avoid that? I was just thinking about the potential occasional crummy weather, since a sudden (loud) downpour in the Sierras isn't unheard of. Stuff like that. I'd have to have two stands, booms, etc., but I have several stands anyway, and Gitzo makes a cheap ($84) boom pole (the Weekender, ,I think. The quality of the boom shouldn't matter too much if it's stationary, right?) So in theory, I could set up two, one at 1/3 the way across the room and one at 2/3. See, I just don't have a sense as to what's overkill in this scenario, versus it'll be iffy at best, so just punt. Course, TWO mics/NT5's means I've got to have an external recording device, cuz the mic on the speaker then makes three. (Arghhh!) I've looked into the Marantz and others, but again, I'm doing my best to not go completely broke here, and sticking to two feeds = cheaper overall. I swear, this stuff is making me crazy. Course, my husband would say going crazy isn't a concern as I went crazy long ago. :-) As far as a handheld/wireless to pass around, if I can get away with it, or rather, if any of the above options will really give me passable audio, I'd prefer to just have the speaker on a wireless lav and the other mic(s) wired. I'd like the doc to stay as natural as possible, and it seems like having them fumbling around with the hand held kind of interupts the flow. But again, if what I gets without resorting to that turns out to not be useable, because they're too far away, handheld it is. Time to take a break and go watch the Super Bowl halftime commercials...

February 2nd, 2004, 01:13 PM	#17
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	I think sticking with just the wireless lav on the presenter and a single mic for the crowd is a good plan. You're correct, having two mics in the crowd would require either keeping them separated and needing an extra recorder, or mixing them live with someone dedicated to doing this correctly in order to alleviate the phasing and additional ambient pickup. Staying away from all that would be simpler for sure. I also agree that having a wireless to pass among the crowd would run against your documentary feel. Yes you see this in docs all the time, but I still think if you can get satisfactory sound without it you'll be better off. If you feel like a single wired mic is just going to be too distant you may have to go wireless handheld but that will be your judgement call. I think the ME64 will be fine, basically I was just offering fairly equal alternatives in case you knew of a cheaper source. The draw of phantom on the camera should be very minimal, but it is a small additional load so using your K6 and adding the 64 seems like a good plan with what you already have. Most any good mic stand with regular 36-inch boom should be fine for placement. Using a long boom on a sand-bagged stand would get you closer, but isn't really needed. You really want to be aiming into their faces for a group, rather than pointing so much down from above. Obviously, it's best to have the mic between the presenter and the audience, so you may have to cheat a little to one side to keep from blocking him. As a reminder, I think both DSE and I are in agreement that having a good operator and using your ME66 would actually be best, but you have a better idea of who you can depend on.

February 2nd, 2004, 01:33 PM	#18
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	Thanks, Jay. You guys have been a huge help and really increased my level of understanding about mics, set ups, and such. Been cranking through Jay Rose's book. Much still to learn, but I'm getting there thanks to patient people like you. Have a good one.