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Old February 9th, 2004, 02:25 PM   #16
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Go to Long and McQuade and see what they have in the used dept, try the samson mixpad or go over Jay Roses more inexpensive suggestions.. You know what my opinion is on ebay purchases
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Old February 9th, 2004, 07:49 PM   #17
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I have absolutly no time to go anywhere...if I was going to buy something near toronto it'd be my dad picking it up near work.

Quote:
You know what my opinion is on ebay purchases
I know that much, but I wasn't asking about the purchase so much as the actual product...the quality of the product is what I need to know to make a decision.

I realize that first hand experience and testing is the best solution but it really isn't possible in my situation. Furthermore, I may think I know what sounds good, but then again, what do i really know?

some barebones questions:
- 1 mic = mono sound?
- can the oktava be used for all around shotgunning? (as well as the possible booming) outdoor use included!
- phantom power boxes like those ART II's and III's - quality?
- shockmount is a necessity i assume...anything smaller, or home-built for the time being?
- anyone have links on basic info on hypercardoid, cardoid, omni?

Thank you all so very much for replying!
honestly...really appreciate it!
Rob
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Old February 9th, 2004, 08:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
some barebones questions:
- 1 mic = mono sound?
- can the oktava be used for all around shotgunning? (as well as the possible booming) outdoor use included!
- shockmount is a necessity i assume...anything smaller, or home-built for the time being?
- anyone have links on basic info on hypercardoid, cardoid, omni?
1 mic = mono sound. With 2 mics, there are various stereo setups you can do. Having the other capsules would lbe more flexible for some of the stereo setups. For some kinds of work, a M/S stereo mic might be more convenient. see http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997...f1f716e5688792

A shotgun would be more directional than the oktava, which would be good for a camera-mounted mic. For indoors work, a hypercardioid like the Oktava is a bit better since they handle room reflections better. For outdoors work, a shotgun is usually better. There's more background noise so more directionality/reach is better. But getting closer with the mic will improve your signal to background noise ratio, so you may be able to get good results by micing closer with a hypercardioid mic.

A decent hypercardioid setup may cost less than a decent shotgun setup. Remember to factor in the cost of windscreen, mount, adapters/mixers, etc. The extras can cost more than the mic.

Info on hyper, cardioid, etc. check out jay rose's articles on dv.com. http://www.dv.com/dv_login.jhtml?_requestid=11795

DSE/Spot also wrote an article on that subject. It's on the sundance site somewhere.

Quote:
- phantom power boxes like those ART II's and III's - quality?
No idea, sorry.
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Old February 10th, 2004, 12:43 AM   #19
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(from the website)
Quote:
The most common arrangement is to use a cardioid microphone facing forwards (the 'M' mic), together with a figure-of-eight microphone (the 'S' mic) facing sideways, and when these are converted into normal left-right stereo, they produce an identical acceptance angle to conventional crossed cardioids
so, cardoid for outdoors, super for indoors?
if you HAD to pick one for both situations, where booming would be used but only on production and this camera is used for goofing around as well

anyone have any input about the other questions?
- phantom power boxes like those ART II's and III's - quality?
- shockmount is a necessity i assume...anything smaller, or home-built for the time being?


thanks Glenn!
Rob
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Old February 10th, 2004, 01:19 PM   #20
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Rob,

I have the Oktava and the ART Phantom III, and they work fine together. The ART isn't a high-quality piece of equipment by any means (the 9V just sort of hangs in the compartment; there's no mounting clips for it), but then again, it doesn't really need to be. It does the job without any interference or static, the metal casing is sturdy, and it's cheap.

Also, I wouldn't use the cardiod capsule outdoors unless you've got two mics and are using the M/S config, per Glenn's suggestion. If you're just using one Oktava, then using the hyper for everything will sound best.

As far as the shockmount goes, there are plenty of homemade designs online if you don't want to spend money. Most involve using rubber bands, hair ties, or some other sort of elastic to suspend the mic. You're also going to need a windscreen if you do any outside shooting (and probably even inside shooting if you have forced air heat, an AC running, or even some windows open), because the Oktava is very sensitive to wind.

Good luck,
Ryan
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Old February 10th, 2004, 03:12 PM   #21
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Ryan, thank you!!!! That was some great advice, I really appreciate you taking the time!

Okay, now I have another question...say I only buy one supercardoid...what do I do about background sound? What do you guys shoot with? Just one shotgun? Does stereo sound not bother you? Or do you use some sort of omni alongside?

Thanks again!
Rob
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Old February 10th, 2004, 05:10 PM   #22
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MS requires a figure8 and a cardoid or hypercardoid. It also requires a capable mixer. The figure 8 is expensive and the mixer as well.
The common stereo setup (cheap and dirty) using 2 mics is XY or coincident. Rob, if you're going to use the Oktava , then use a hypercardoid.

Before you listen to any more advice read this. You aren't really clear on the concept yet and either are some of the people offering advice. Sarting off with the wrong information will cause much aggrevation not to mention wailing and gnashing of teeth. It will make something that should be turn out to be your worst nightmare and it will waste money.

It's a good basic primer on some mic techniques. http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/location_sound.html


This one has some good stuff so you can understand stereo
http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/faq-mic.html


There are a bunch more that have been posted, so read them. You can't learn audio through 2 paragraph posts. Take it from a crusty old fart, it's the only way :)
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Old February 10th, 2004, 05:55 PM   #23
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agreed!
by no means are any of anyones words the end. I have learned everything about building computers and now digital video out of my own curiousity...never really settling for what normal people would.

i HATE when people ask me to help them with the same computer problem i just told them how to do themselves last week, i imagine you are the same with this.

being pushed in the right direction is what i've been seeking...and i've been getting it.

Thanks Bryan for the links, when i get a chance i will read up. the reason i really don't want to get something cheaper than the oktava is the same reason I bought a $288 computer case from LA; it's gonna last me....too sick of buying for here and now.

Thanks everyone! now to fail an astronomy test!
Rob

ps film theory is bull.
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Old February 10th, 2004, 06:48 PM   #24
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Rob
For the samre reason, don't buy a mixer unless you know you can uload it for something better. An NT3 or Oktava hyper will be a keeper. The NT3 doesn't need phantom and it's got a little hotter output.
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Old February 11th, 2004, 01:42 AM   #25
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The ART phantom power..ers on ebay are nice and cheap. If I can get one of these, there isn't much lost money...and that way I get to spend more on the thing i definately won't be changing. The NT3 seems like a compromise to me. I listened to those tests very carefully, imported them into audition and all...I really like the oktaka.

about the hotter output, there's plans in a magazine on how to make it hotter, correct?

Bryan, I realize i seem difficult about all of this and I really appreciate you patience with me...I really do.
Rob
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