Edirol R-44 and timecode

Steve House · December 9th, 2009, 04:24 AM

Quote:

I would then be able to "sync to timecode" on my editing software. All the footage would automatically sync up to the four channels of audio.

Make sure your NLE reads timecode from an audio track. Not all do.

Dean Sensui · December 9th, 2009, 04:46 AM

Phivo...

From your description you seem to be saying that you'll take timecode from the R-44, and send it to your camera via a wireless connection?

The R-44 has a Control-Sync jack, but it's to link two R-44s to create an 8-track recording system. I don't think it can feed sync data to a camera. And it's doubtful a camera will slave to an audio recorder.

Here's what I do: get the camera and recorder to the same "time of day" at the start of the day. Then use that embedded data in post to line up the continuous audio tracks with the individual video clips.

A couple of caveats: It's impossible to get both recorder and camera to get perfect time-of-day sync. So clips have to be nudged into perfect sync in post. The BWF files created by the R-44 are stamped with timecode at the start of the file, and the rest of the file's timecode is based on assumptions of sample rate and duration. There's always the risk of drift. But I always check and make corrections as needed.

Generally speaking, it all works. But it does require manually attaining audio/video sync.

I like the R-44. It's compact. Seems solidly built. It's easy to operate in the field. The audio quality is just great for what I do, even when recording voiceovers in a studio environment.

Phivo Christodoulou · December 9th, 2009, 05:38 AM

Thanks for your reply Dean. Yes that is what I intended to do and yes in an ideal world what i hope it does would be fantastic. The rep at Roland believes I will be able to achieve these results, but they lent it to me so that I can check and make sure.

I use Edius and i was told that it would do this. From the research I have done a number of people told me that sending timecode to an audio channel is common and doable.

I should know within the next couple of days when i finally get an opportunity to test it.

If it does not work the way i intend, then Dean i guess i would have to fall back on your suggestion - it sounds like the next best thing.

Fingers crossed!

Phivo Christodoulou · December 9th, 2009, 07:44 AM

correction... my mistake. Sorry guys i have gotten the models mixed up. I am referring to the R-4 Pro, not the R44. The R-4 Pro does timecode sync. My bad.

Dean Sensui · December 9th, 2009, 08:21 PM

As Gilda Radner used to say as Rosanne Rosannadanna, "Oops. Never mind!"

Phivo Christodoulou · December 9th, 2009, 08:55 PM

Yep sorry. Too many similar model numbers it gets confusing.

Dean have you considered going up to the R-4 Pro? I know it's a couple of grand more and I guess it's up to every individual to weigh up the time you save in syncing is worth the money over time.

It only recently occurred to me that that video producers (myself included) are happy to part with large amounts of money every 1-2 years for cameras, yet will not spend less than half that amount once off for audio equipment that will last at least 10 years.

It's an interesting topic.

Adam Gold · December 10th, 2009, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean Sensui

As Gilda Radner used to say as Rosanne Rosannadanna, "Oops. Never mind!"

Um, that would be Emily Litella. Roseanne Roseannadanna used to say, "It's always something."

Robert Gordon · February 27th, 2010, 08:42 AM

I have an R4 Pro and an HD-P2 (my backup recorder). Sometimes I sync the Tascam's TC-in to the Edirol's TC-out to give me six tracks when we're using two booms plus three or four body mics. Or I use it to create the guide track mix from the Edirol's stereo line outs. Needless to say, I'm considering shelling out for an eight or ten-track (Deva or Fusion, the Fostex - or has anyone checked out the new Tascam HS-P82? - it seems like a great deal, but of the course the pre-amps are always the biggest question mark with "great deals").

D.R. Gates · April 4th, 2011, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve House

When you guys claim these inexpensive consumer grade recorders maintain dead sync with various cameras, all sorts of alarm bells go off.

What about this lav recorder?

Zaxcom ZFR200 Miniature Digital Audio Recorder :: Professional Recorders :: Recorders :: Coffey Sound

Steve House · April 5th, 2011, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.R. Gates

What about this lav recorder?

Zaxcom ZFR200 Miniature Digital Audio Recorder :: Professional Recorders :: Recorders :: Coffey Sound

I don't have any direct experience with that recorder but knowing Zaxcom I would expect it to have accurate and stable clocks and hold sync far tighter than any of the Zooms or other 'pocket recorders'. The only way one can be sure of maintaining sync for shots running longer than 5 or 10 minutes is to drive both the camera and audio recorder sample clocks from a common timebase.

December 9th, 2009, 04:46 AM	#17
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	Phivo... From your description you seem to be saying that you'll take timecode from the R-44, and send it to your camera via a wireless connection? The R-44 has a Control-Sync jack, but it's to link two R-44s to create an 8-track recording system. I don't think it can feed sync data to a camera. And it's doubtful a camera will slave to an audio recorder. Here's what I do: get the camera and recorder to the same "time of day" at the start of the day. Then use that embedded data in post to line up the continuous audio tracks with the individual video clips. A couple of caveats: It's impossible to get both recorder and camera to get perfect time-of-day sync. So clips have to be nudged into perfect sync in post. The BWF files created by the R-44 are stamped with timecode at the start of the file, and the rest of the file's timecode is based on assumptions of sample rate and duration. There's always the risk of drift. But I always check and make corrections as needed. Generally speaking, it all works. But it does require manually attaining audio/video sync. I like the R-44. It's compact. Seems solidly built. It's easy to operate in the field. The audio quality is just great for what I do, even when recording voiceovers in a studio environment. __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

December 9th, 2009, 08:21 PM	#20
Dean Sensui Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 2,054	As Gilda Radner used to say as Rosanne Rosannadanna, "Oops. Never mind!" __________________ Dean Sensui Exec Producer, Hawaii Goes Fishing

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December 9th, 2009, 05:38 AM	#18
Phivo Christodoulou Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 39	Thanks for your reply Dean. Yes that is what I intended to do and yes in an ideal world what i hope it does would be fantastic. The rep at Roland believes I will be able to achieve these results, but they lent it to me so that I can check and make sure. I use Edius and i was told that it would do this. From the research I have done a number of people told me that sending timecode to an audio channel is common and doable. I should know within the next couple of days when i finally get an opportunity to test it. If it does not work the way i intend, then Dean i guess i would have to fall back on your suggestion - it sounds like the next best thing. Fingers crossed!

December 9th, 2009, 07:44 AM	#19
Phivo Christodoulou Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 39	correction... my mistake. Sorry guys i have gotten the models mixed up. I am referring to the R-4 Pro, not the R44. The R-4 Pro does timecode sync. My bad.

December 9th, 2009, 08:55 PM	#21
Phivo Christodoulou Regular Crew Join Date: May 2009 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 39	Yep sorry. Too many similar model numbers it gets confusing. Dean have you considered going up to the R-4 Pro? I know it's a couple of grand more and I guess it's up to every individual to weigh up the time you save in syncing is worth the money over time. It only recently occurred to me that that video producers (myself included) are happy to part with large amounts of money every 1-2 years for cameras, yet will not spend less than half that amount once off for audio equipment that will last at least 10 years. It's an interesting topic.

February 27th, 2010, 08:42 AM	#23
Robert Gordon New Boot Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 19	I have an R4 Pro and an HD-P2 (my backup recorder). Sometimes I sync the Tascam's TC-in to the Edirol's TC-out to give me six tracks when we're using two booms plus three or four body mics. Or I use it to create the guide track mix from the Edirol's stereo line outs. Needless to say, I'm considering shelling out for an eight or ten-track (Deva or Fusion, the Fostex - or has anyone checked out the new Tascam HS-P82? - it seems like a great deal, but of the course the pre-amps are always the biggest question mark with "great deals").