3 CCD Camera's with XLR at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 14th, 2004, 03:40 PM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 8
3 CCD Camera's with XLR

What new Prosumer 3 CCD MIni Dv camera's come with XLR jacks, without using an adapter? I know the DVX100 does. Does anyone else know of any others?
__________________
stacypaul@kc.rr.com
Stacy Paul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 03:49 PM   #2
Warden
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 8,267
The XL1 with the MA-200/MA-100. I don't really consider the MA products an adapter. They incorporate a very useful shoulder pad/support and I find it indispensable..

The Sony PD150 also has built in XLR support.
__________________
Jeff Donald
Carpe Diem




Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors
Jeff Donald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 03:51 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Posts: 745
Panasonic DVX100a

Panasonic AG DVC80

Sony DSR PDX10 (it's an "adaptor", but it doesn't work through the micjack, making it noteworthy)

Sony DSR PD170
__________________
Breakthrough In Grey Room

Shawn Mielke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 05:27 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Posts: 542
<<<-- Originally posted by Jeff Donald : The XL1 with the MA-200/MA-100. I don't really consider the MA products an adapter. They incorporate a very useful shoulder pad/support and I find it indispensable..

The Sony PD150 also has built in XLR support. -->>>

But isn't the XLR connector converted to RCA?
Doesn't that defeat the purpose of how XLR works?

by the way, an excellent topic. I consider XLR interfacing one of the most important issue (also time-code settability) for video acquisiton work.
Alessandro Machi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 05:32 PM   #5
Warden
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 8,267
Line level over several inches is not a problem. Balanced audio (assuming that is what you're referring to by XLR audio) has advantages for running cables over long distances.
__________________
Jeff Donald
Carpe Diem




Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors
Jeff Donald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 05:44 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Posts: 542
Does XLR use any power from the camera? I'm so spoiled by how well it works that I don't know if it uses power from the camera.

If it's converted to RCA before it reaches the camera how do they make it work correctly?
Alessandro Machi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 05:49 PM   #7
Warden
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 8,267
RCA is just a type of connector, not an audio format or specification. XLR connectors, in and of themselves, do not require additional electrical power. The MA-100/200 includes a pre-amplification circuit that requires electrical power. The circuit is very efficient and does require much power from the XL1.
__________________
Jeff Donald
Carpe Diem




Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors
Jeff Donald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 07:03 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Posts: 542
So it sounds like the Canon Camera actually provides some type of power to the adapter that you use.

For anyone else that wants to learn about XLR versus RCA it's very important to know that converting from RCA to XLR requires more than just a passive connector.

I have been told in the past that XLR that converts to RCA before reaching the camera is not true XLR.

However, if it works for you then that's all that matters. Do you think your set-up is equivalent to just having built in XLR connectors into the camera itself?
Alessandro Machi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 07:33 PM   #9
Warden
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 8,267
Your confusing connectors (XLR, RCA, BNC etc.) with types of audio signals (balanced and unbalanced). Balanced audio has some advantages over unbalanced audio, especially when the cable is run for long distances. The typical audio XLR connector is capable of using 3 wires. RCA is a two wire connector. Balanced audio requires 3 wires.
__________________
Jeff Donald
Carpe Diem




Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors
Jeff Donald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 07:58 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Posts: 542
You seem to have applied one blanket statement to the multiple points that I made in my last post.

RCA connectors are NEVER balanced. You can't convert RCA to XLR without some type of pre-amp. I'm curious how your Canon camera powers the XLR Adapter that you have, and if the XLR is truly balanced audio.

Do you think your Canon set-up is as foolproof as having XLR directly on the camera? If it isn't as foolproof, is it a very rare situation where you might have a problem so it doesn't concern you?
Alessandro Machi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 08:39 PM   #11
Warden
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 8,267
What is vague is the term "true XLR." I assume you mean balanced audio by "true XLR."

Balanced audio needs to be converted in order to be recorded by a camera. The XL1 supples power to the MA-100/200 and converts a balanced or unbalanced audio signal. Like all cameras, the XL1 has specific requirements concerning the impedance of the audio signal. If the impedance is mismatched the audio signal will be not be recorded properly.

Balanced and unbalanced audio can use cables with XLR connectors. The advantage of balanced audio over unbalanced audio is with long cable runs. Long cable runs are more prone to interference than short cable runs. The MA-100/200 accepts balanced audio via XL1 connectors and uses an unbalanced cable of approximately 3 inches to get the signal into the camera. The 3 inch unbalanced audio cable does not present any interference problems.
__________________
Jeff Donald
Carpe Diem




Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors
Jeff Donald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 08:43 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Posts: 542
Why would anyone ever use unbalanced XLR?

As you said, the advantage with balanced XLR is you can run audio cables several hundred feet with no problems.

So when you connect to your XLR Adapter you are running balanced XLR cables to the adapter.
Alessandro Machi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 08:47 PM   #13
Warden
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 8,267
Hopefully this will help your understanding.
__________________
Jeff Donald
Carpe Diem




Search DVinfo.net for quick answers | Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors
Jeff Donald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 09:30 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Los Angeles, Ca USA
Posts: 542
I'm somewhat familiar with the unit.

Based on your experience I'm trying to determine if there are any scenarios where having the XLR not go directly to the camera might not be as desireable as having a direct XLR interface. You are uniquely qualified to answer this because you no doubt use your XLR to RCA adapter frequently.

Apparently it has never failed you. But if it ever has that kind of information is very valuable for others to learn about so they can avoid a simlar scenario, rare as it may be.
The only time I have ever had a problem with my ENG style of Cameras with the XLR inputs was when I had a defective extension cord.

I'd plug in a monitor to view the image and I would get a buzz, I'd turn the monitor off and the buzz would go away. It turned out it was a defective extension cord.
Alessandro Machi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14th, 2004, 09:39 PM   #15
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockton, UT
Posts: 5,648
<<<-- Originally posted by Alessandro Machi : You seem to have applied one blanket statement to the multiple points that I made in my last post.

RCA connectors are NEVER balanced. You can't convert RCA to XLR without some type of pre-amp. -->>>

You absolutely can convert RCA to XLR, or XLR to RCA without a preamp. You can walk into any Radio Shack or professional audio store and buy an adapter that does just that.
As Jeff pointed out, the issue is long cable runs. It's always best to use a transformer to convert from balanced to unbalanced, but the few inches of high impedance or unbalanced cable won't make a difference unless there is a problem cable in the chain.
__________________
Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot
Author, producer, composer
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
http://www.vasst.com
Douglas Spotted Eagle is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:26 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network