Advice mic for indoors interview

Karl Lohninger · May 16th, 2009, 02:43 AM

Carlos, I understand that with being somewhat new to the audio world and with no real experience it's not ease to make a right decision.

Now, you state two things: your main purpose is doing (sit-down) interviews putting the microphone on a stand. And, you would be willing to shell out up to $ 1300.00.

That's really enough money + the job to be done is not a real complicated one. I do that all the time. Somebody mentioned that 'pros' use lavaliers and what have you. Just that: in the situation you describe 'pros' use a stand mounted microphone, usually a hyper-cardiod or a cardiod. Call me a 'pro' ;-)

I personally bought many many microphones on ebay and never had a problem! Maybe it's just me. Because your envisioned job is really not that demanding you have the luxury to chose a microphone that will be usable also for other things.

For example, I have quite a selection of AKG 460 or AKG 480 models. This is really a dark horse microphone. It's excellent quality, is extensively used by the taper's crowd, and can be found rather easily and well priced on ebay or on various fori. Check the taper's forum, they have their own 'for sale' forum and they know each other. This microphone, like the Schoeps CMC series, or the Oktava allows you to change capsules. There's even an excellent shotgun capsule out there. You should find a AKG 460 (as good as the 480 btw) with a cardiod capsule for less than $350.00 if you look around! I've used this microphone on more film sets I care to remember! There's also hyper cardiod capsules as well as omni capsules. Google around to get educated about this system.

Oktava, well, I personally am not the big fan, it does have handling noise issues and there's this Russian versions and the Chinese versions and what have you, I never really had a reason to use one. They exist and for simple things they're usable.

Then there's Sennheiser: as mentioned earlier, I don't like their ME system or what it's called - I don't like how it sounds, it's not worth my money. But, they have the MKH series which are excellent microphones, but only if you find them on the used market. They're too expensive to buy new. And you'd lose too much money in case you want to resell it.

Schoeps: I mentioned this system, because a) it is an excellent system and for $1300 you definitely could find one used. Think of the 41 capsule and any of the CMC5, or CMC6 bases etc. as long as you can power them: there's 48V phantom and there's 12V T power out there. 12T power isn't very often used nowadays but it's as good as and I have a lot of great T powered mikes and they can be found even cheaper! I do think Schoeps is overkill for your plans, I'd spend money differently, and that is:

Get a AKG 460/480 series with a CK1 (aka CK 61) (cardiod) or a CK3 (aka CK63) hyper cardiod capsule. If you can find an AKG shotgun capsule a CK69 for a good price, get one of those too and you're covered for a lot of situations.

For the price of a CK69 you might actually find a Sennheiser 415 or 416. The ones called 415T or 416T ask for T power. There's lots of cheap 48V phantom to T-power converters out there. The T-powerd mikes are always lower priced.

When buying used microphones make sure that you're allowed to return them if they do not work! Never buy stuff from folks who say, I'm sure it works but I couldn't 'test' it or such nonsense.

Check 'gearslutz' forums for used stuff as well as the taper's forum. Check ebay. save money, be happy!

I do have some experience in this field....:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0517905/

Stuart Graham · May 16th, 2009, 05:21 AM

To Chris Swanberg:

I was thinking of getting an Oktava MC/MK-012 as a second microphone.

Do you find your MK-012 suffers from handling noise on a boom?

Do you have it mounted on a shock mount, in a zeppelin with a windshield?

What models of the latter do you use?

Chris Swanberg · May 16th, 2009, 10:51 AM

Stuart,

I will agree that it is a little sensitive to being mishandled and requires attention to the use of a boom. That said, it is not a big issue that has gotten in the way of its use for me. I have used in in various mounts (the AT shockmount [AT8415 comes to mind as the model] as well as a cheap Joe Meeks rubber band mount, and several others that I have picked up along the way. One of these days I need to sit down and catalog which one works best... but they all seem to work ok.

I have used it in a zeppelin. I own one of the Indian zeppelins off E-Bay, and have previously written how I have been generally been very pleased with that $175 purchase.

I won't argue that the Schoeps is not a much better mic, but I also have to say for a lot less money, I feel I am capturing excellent sound that many would not be able to distinguish. I also think I could sell my Oktava for as much or more than I paid so a I move up, should I decide to rid myself of it, I won't have wasted anything.

I carefully read up on the entire series of Oktava mics, and learned how to spot a fake. I watched many many ebay ads and watched the mics either not pass the smell test for genuinenness, or sell for more than I wanted to pay. Then one day, I saw a real deal black Oktava (which is what I wanted), with 3 caps and a -10db pad and won it for $175. I think I paid $80 to have it modded. I acknowledge I got a really good deal on it, and am not saying others may be as fortunate.

I use it pretty exclusively as my interior microphone in non lav situations. I also have used with my lavs (Sony ECM-44's - the old filmschool workhorse) and it cuts decently.

I don't think you will be sorry if you pick one up. The handling noise issues are overblown IMHO.

Chris Swanberg

ps. Karl's advice was really excellent. I'd like to think if he had my Oktava to use he'd come away with a better impression of it - (though I am not saying he'd somehow claim it is a Schoeps CMC41 in Russian clothing <grin>)

Stuart Graham · May 16th, 2009, 12:31 PM

Thanks Chris

I happen to have an At8415b shock mount.

I think I will get a modded MC/MK-012 with the 3 capsules now :)

Could you post a link to the type of zeppelin you use for the MK-012?

Chris Swanberg · May 16th, 2009, 01:45 PM

Stuart.. I don't see it currently on E-Bay.But Visually it appears to be very much like, if not exactly like, this one:

DX-4400 Wind Screening Microphone Blimp - AUD/5120, KIT/AUD-5130, KIT/AUD-5135, KIT/AUD-5140

Mine came with a short extension for the body to accomodate longer mics, and 2 fur covers to handle either length - standard or with the extension. Build quality was not aircraft build quality, but It has served me ok. I think I paid $175 for the whole shebang.

The Rode blimp from DVEStore is a better quality build,and not a LOT more expensive. Guy Cochran (DVEStore's owner)could easily respond to his views on these thing. he's a reliable seller.

Chris

I should say that 99% of my use for the Mk-012 has been indoors and I rarely need anything other than a foamscreen in it. I HAVE had it in the blimp, but rarely. Outdoors I tend to go with one of my shotguns in it.

Stuart Graham · May 16th, 2009, 01:55 PM

Thanks very much for the info Chris :)

I will look into the Rode blimp as well. One option would be for me to get an NTG-3 kit with blimp and boom pole for outdoor work. Then also get an Oktava MK-012 for indoor work.

Chris Swanberg · May 16th, 2009, 02:04 PM

"Bang for your buck" wise, that would be an excellent choice that I think you would not regret.

Stuart Graham · May 16th, 2009, 03:20 PM

Thanks again Chris. You can't beat a high bang/buck ratio ;)

Chris Swanberg · May 17th, 2009, 12:09 AM

I think Guy even has a boom/shockmount/NG-3 package...

Phil Bambridge · May 17th, 2009, 10:14 PM

I use a (currently) unmodded Oktava MK012, and have never experienced problems with handling. At the moment I use it mounted either on the Rycote S series suspension, or their softie pistol grip (which can quickly be mounted to a boom).

However, I *did* find it very sensitive to wind, and have to have something on it for active booming, even if done fairly slowly. I chose the Rycote Baby Ball Gag, which proved effective enough to even be usable outdoors, admittedly in virtually zero wind. I may get the fluffy windshield to go with it soon. Only downside- it makes this short mic a bit harder to mount, and it means at the business end, it is an inch or two longer, so meaning you have to be even more careful to not get it in shot.

Stuart Graham · May 18th, 2009, 02:20 AM

I ordered the 20mm Rycote BBG and Rycote windjammer - hopefully they should give adequate wind protection. I'm getting one of the official MK012 shock mounts, hopefully it should do a good job too. When I've had a go with the system I'll put a post on here. I have to work out how to use my new SD MIX-PRE mixer with it and my XH A1, haven't used a mixer before so it might be a steep learning curve!

Paul R Johnson · May 18th, 2009, 02:48 AM

They don't come up very often, but Beyer M201 hypercardioids are worth a look. Quite small and with a simple foam windshield fitted work really well for seated interviews - popular in radio studios as a workhorse type mic.

Sacha Rosen · May 18th, 2009, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Bambridge

I use a (currently) unmodded Oktava MK012, and have never experienced problems with handling. At the moment I use it mounted either on the Rycote S series suspension, or their softie pistol grip (which can quickly be mounted to a boom).

However, I *did* find it very sensitive to wind, and have to have something on it for active booming, even if done fairly slowly. I chose the Rycote Baby Ball Gag, which proved effective enough to even be usable outdoors, admittedly in virtually zero wind. I may get the fluffy windshield to go with it soon. Only downside- it makes this short mic a bit harder to mount, and it means at the business end, it is an inch or two longer, so meaning you have to be even more careful to not get it in shot.

the end of the mic is the end of the mic, it shouldn't really make a difference either way

Phil Bambridge · May 18th, 2009, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacha Rosen

the end of the mic is the end of the mic, it shouldn't really make a difference either way

I don't know what you mean by this. But here is a clarification in case this is what you were getting at. The problem with the BBG (or any wind protection) is because you generally want the mic to be as close as possible to the sound source, but not be in shot. With the BBG fitted you are having to hold the capsule end of the microphone a couple of inches further away from where you would otherwise have situated it.

Naturally, not having your sound severely impaired by wind noise beats that downside.

Jeff Kellam · May 18th, 2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos Manuel

Thanks Stuart,

For around the same cost of the Rode NTG-3, there is also
Sanken CS1
Sony ECM-678
Audio-Technica AT4073a
Sennheiser K6/ME66 / ME67
Sennheiser 416
...

Do you have tested any of them?
I will not record voice for feature film or singers.
I want to have deep voice and do not see the lapel mic.

Will I note a major difference from a $700 to a $1100 cardioid or supercardioid ?
Thanks again

Carlos:

I understand you are looking for a value mic to use on this project and beef up your sound capabilities for future projects.

You mentioned the 4073a. There are a lot of mics better suited which have already been mentioned, but I can tell you from experience just yesterday, that the 4073a can work for your interview with careful placement, unless you have a noisy room. The main reason I mention the 4073a is that it's such a value (from one of the big A/V stores) at about $560 for a kit. It's a good budget mic to add to your kit.

Keep building your sound kit.

May 16th, 2009, 02:43 AM	#16
Karl Lohninger Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 82	Carlos, I understand that with being somewhat new to the audio world and with no real experience it's not ease to make a right decision. Now, you state two things: your main purpose is doing (sit-down) interviews putting the microphone on a stand. And, you would be willing to shell out up to $ 1300.00. That's really enough money + the job to be done is not a real complicated one. I do that all the time. Somebody mentioned that 'pros' use lavaliers and what have you. Just that: in the situation you describe 'pros' use a stand mounted microphone, usually a hyper-cardiod or a cardiod. Call me a 'pro' ;-) I personally bought many many microphones on ebay and never had a problem! Maybe it's just me. Because your envisioned job is really not that demanding you have the luxury to chose a microphone that will be usable also for other things. For example, I have quite a selection of AKG 460 or AKG 480 models. This is really a dark horse microphone. It's excellent quality, is extensively used by the taper's crowd, and can be found rather easily and well priced on ebay or on various fori. Check the taper's forum, they have their own 'for sale' forum and they know each other. This microphone, like the Schoeps CMC series, or the Oktava allows you to change capsules. There's even an excellent shotgun capsule out there. You should find a AKG 460 (as good as the 480 btw) with a cardiod capsule for less than $350.00 if you look around! I've used this microphone on more film sets I care to remember! There's also hyper cardiod capsules as well as omni capsules. Google around to get educated about this system. Oktava, well, I personally am not the big fan, it does have handling noise issues and there's this Russian versions and the Chinese versions and what have you, I never really had a reason to use one. They exist and for simple things they're usable. Then there's Sennheiser: as mentioned earlier, I don't like their ME system or what it's called - I don't like how it sounds, it's not worth my money. But, they have the MKH series which are excellent microphones, but only if you find them on the used market. They're too expensive to buy new. And you'd lose too much money in case you want to resell it. Schoeps: I mentioned this system, because a) it is an excellent system and for $1300 you definitely could find one used. Think of the 41 capsule and any of the CMC5, or CMC6 bases etc. as long as you can power them: there's 48V phantom and there's 12V T power out there. 12T power isn't very often used nowadays but it's as good as and I have a lot of great T powered mikes and they can be found even cheaper! I do think Schoeps is overkill for your plans, I'd spend money differently, and that is: Get a AKG 460/480 series with a CK1 (aka CK 61) (cardiod) or a CK3 (aka CK63) hyper cardiod capsule. If you can find an AKG shotgun capsule a CK69 for a good price, get one of those too and you're covered for a lot of situations. For the price of a CK69 you might actually find a Sennheiser 415 or 416. The ones called 415T or 416T ask for T power. There's lots of cheap 48V phantom to T-power converters out there. The T-powerd mikes are always lower priced. When buying used microphones make sure that you're allowed to return them if they do not work! Never buy stuff from folks who say, I'm sure it works but I couldn't 'test' it or such nonsense. Check 'gearslutz' forums for used stuff as well as the taper's forum. Check ebay. save money, be happy! I do have some experience in this field....: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0517905/ Last edited by Karl Lohninger; May 16th, 2009 at 04:51 AM. Reason: grammar

May 16th, 2009, 05:21 AM	#17
Stuart Graham Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Selby UK Posts: 274	To Chris Swanberg: I was thinking of getting an Oktava MC/MK-012 as a second microphone. Do you find your MK-012 suffers from handling noise on a boom? Do you have it mounted on a shock mount, in a zeppelin with a windshield? What models of the latter do you use? __________________ Stuart Graham www.magentapictures.com

May 16th, 2009, 10:51 AM	#18
Chris Swanberg Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 904	Stuart, I will agree that it is a little sensitive to being mishandled and requires attention to the use of a boom. That said, it is not a big issue that has gotten in the way of its use for me. I have used in in various mounts (the AT shockmount [AT8415 comes to mind as the model] as well as a cheap Joe Meeks rubber band mount, and several others that I have picked up along the way. One of these days I need to sit down and catalog which one works best... but they all seem to work ok. I have used it in a zeppelin. I own one of the Indian zeppelins off E-Bay, and have previously written how I have been generally been very pleased with that $175 purchase. I won't argue that the Schoeps is not a much better mic, but I also have to say for a lot less money, I feel I am capturing excellent sound that many would not be able to distinguish. I also think I could sell my Oktava for as much or more than I paid so a I move up, should I decide to rid myself of it, I won't have wasted anything. I carefully read up on the entire series of Oktava mics, and learned how to spot a fake. I watched many many ebay ads and watched the mics either not pass the smell test for genuinenness, or sell for more than I wanted to pay. Then one day, I saw a real deal black Oktava (which is what I wanted), with 3 caps and a -10db pad and won it for $175. I think I paid $80 to have it modded. I acknowledge I got a really good deal on it, and am not saying others may be as fortunate. I use it pretty exclusively as my interior microphone in non lav situations. I also have used with my lavs (Sony ECM-44's - the old filmschool workhorse) and it cuts decently. I don't think you will be sorry if you pick one up. The handling noise issues are overblown IMHO. Chris Swanberg ps. Karl's advice was really excellent. I'd like to think if he had my Oktava to use he'd come away with a better impression of it - (though I am not saying he'd somehow claim it is a Schoeps CMC41 in Russian clothing <grin>) Last edited by Chris Swanberg; May 16th, 2009 at 01:51 PM.

May 16th, 2009, 12:31 PM	#19
Stuart Graham Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Selby UK Posts: 274	Thanks Chris I happen to have an At8415b shock mount. I think I will get a modded MC/MK-012 with the 3 capsules now :) Could you post a link to the type of zeppelin you use for the MK-012? __________________ Stuart Graham www.magentapictures.com

May 16th, 2009, 01:55 PM	#21
Stuart Graham Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Selby UK Posts: 274	Thanks very much for the info Chris :) I will look into the Rode blimp as well. One option would be for me to get an NTG-3 kit with blimp and boom pole for outdoor work. Then also get an Oktava MK-012 for indoor work. __________________ Stuart Graham www.magentapictures.com

May 16th, 2009, 01:45 PM	#20
Chris Swanberg Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 904	Stuart.. I don't see it currently on E-Bay.But Visually it appears to be very much like, if not exactly like, this one: DX-4400 Wind Screening Microphone Blimp - AUD/5120, KIT/AUD-5130, KIT/AUD-5135, KIT/AUD-5140 Mine came with a short extension for the body to accomodate longer mics, and 2 fur covers to handle either length - standard or with the extension. Build quality was not aircraft build quality, but It has served me ok. I think I paid $175 for the whole shebang. The Rode blimp from DVEStore is a better quality build,and not a LOT more expensive. Guy Cochran (DVEStore's owner)could easily respond to his views on these thing. he's a reliable seller. Chris I should say that 99% of my use for the Mk-012 has been indoors and I rarely need anything other than a foamscreen in it. I HAVE had it in the blimp, but rarely. Outdoors I tend to go with one of my shotguns in it.

May 16th, 2009, 02:04 PM	#22
Chris Swanberg Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 904	"Bang for your buck" wise, that would be an excellent choice that I think you would not regret.

May 16th, 2009, 03:20 PM	#23
Stuart Graham Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Selby UK Posts: 274	Thanks again Chris. You can't beat a high bang/buck ratio ;) __________________ Stuart Graham www.magentapictures.com

May 17th, 2009, 12:09 AM	#24
Chris Swanberg Major Player Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 904	I think Guy even has a boom/shockmount/NG-3 package...

May 17th, 2009, 10:14 PM	#25
Phil Bambridge Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bristol, England Posts: 78	I use a (currently) unmodded Oktava MK012, and have never experienced problems with handling. At the moment I use it mounted either on the Rycote S series suspension, or their softie pistol grip (which can quickly be mounted to a boom). However, I did find it very sensitive to wind, and have to have something on it for active booming, even if done fairly slowly. I chose the Rycote Baby Ball Gag, which proved effective enough to even be usable outdoors, admittedly in virtually zero wind. I may get the fluffy windshield to go with it soon. Only downside- it makes this short mic a bit harder to mount, and it means at the business end, it is an inch or two longer, so meaning you have to be even more careful to not get it in shot.

May 18th, 2009, 02:20 AM	#26
Stuart Graham Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Selby UK Posts: 274	I ordered the 20mm Rycote BBG and Rycote windjammer - hopefully they should give adequate wind protection. I'm getting one of the official MK012 shock mounts, hopefully it should do a good job too. When I've had a go with the system I'll put a post on here. I have to work out how to use my new SD MIX-PRE mixer with it and my XH A1, haven't used a mixer before so it might be a steep learning curve! __________________ Stuart Graham www.magentapictures.com

May 18th, 2009, 02:48 AM	#27
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	They don't come up very often, but Beyer M201 hypercardioids are worth a look. Quite small and with a simple foam windshield fitted work really well for seated interviews - popular in radio studios as a workhorse type mic.