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Old July 6th, 2009, 05:46 PM   #46
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Can't say that I have, Ty. I was meaning that of the mics I have, the AT 4040 sounds best on his guitar. Schoeps are on the list, once there's money for them! Then there's the rest of the signal chain to consider...
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Old July 6th, 2009, 06:38 PM   #47
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Andy,

Not trying to kick sand on the AT4040. AT makes some VERY nice mics. But, when you have time and inclination, rent a cmc641 for a few days. My entire approach to mics changed when I heard a cmc641 though a GML preamp.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old July 6th, 2009, 08:39 PM   #48
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Hey ty, just curious how I could get a copy of two of your songs to use in a slide show
I'm working on.. not commercial just for my own pleasure...

The songs are Blue Sky Cowboy Dream and Look Ma, I'm Flyin'

Very well done....

thanks
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Old July 6th, 2009, 10:33 PM   #49
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Ty...I need to up my game regarding pre-amps and conversion before I mess with anything like a Schoeps. What's the point of running a mic like that through a $160 pre and a $200 converter? For me, at this stage of the game, that would seem like a waste of time. I haven't heard better yet, but I know I'm missing something, and I look forward to the day the veil is lifted for good! Andy
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Old July 6th, 2009, 11:16 PM   #50
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Microphone

Michael, may I also suggest you check out ribbon mics. They can be had for prices beginning around $100-to several thousand dollars. The only down side is a good preamp is needed. Check out the AEA, Coles, or Royer ribbons. Then combine them with a Gordon or Forssell preamps, this is assuming you want to spend a load of money!!!

I am using a pair of Apex 205 ribbons that I had modded by Michael Jolly. The Apex ribbons can be had for $100-120 and the MJ mod is $219. Add a AEA TRP and you are in business for about $1200 new. The TRP shows up from time to time for $700-800 used.

No they are not Schoeps, but they have a unique character of their own.

David Rogers
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Old July 7th, 2009, 08:28 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Balla View Post
Ty...I need to up my game regarding pre-amps and conversion before I mess with anything like a Schoeps. What's the point of running a mic like that through a $160 pre and a $200 converter? For me, at this stage of the game, that would seem like a waste of time. I haven't heard better yet, but I know I'm missing something, and I look forward to the day the veil is lifted for good! Andy
Andy,

It's a game of steps. I originally started with a Digi001, got GML preamps, got an REM AD-I 8 converter. Somewhere after there, I tried the Schoeps. I am on record in many places saying this. The difference was both subtle and profound. When I heard the difference I remember thinking every thing I know about audio up until then had been wrong.

I still think you'd be interested in renting a cmc641, even with your setup. I think DreamHire in NY rents them.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old July 7th, 2009, 08:41 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by David Rogers View Post
Michael, may I also suggest you check out ribbon mics. They can be had for prices beginning around $100-to several thousand dollars. The only down side is a good preamp is needed. Check out the AEA, Coles, or Royer ribbons. Then combine them with a Gordon or Forssell preamps, this is assuming you want to spend a load of money!!!

I am using a pair of Apex 205 ribbons that I had modded by Michael Jolly. The Apex ribbons can be had for $100-120 and the MJ mod is $219. Add a AEA TRP and you are in business for about $1200 new. The TRP shows up from time to time for $700-800 used.

No they are not Schoeps, but they have a unique character of their own.

David Rogers
David,

Yes, a unique character. I own a 77DX, m160 and an AEA R84 with TRP preamp I bought earlier this year. Of the three, the R84 gives me the best results. A while back I was recording sax for a song here. I tried the M160 and the cmc641. In a heartbeat, the cmc641 won. Here's a compressed version of the mix. http://tinyurl.com/ku66nc


I wrote a feature story about the history of the ribbon mics some years back for Pro Audio Review. http://idisk.mac.com/tyreeford-Public/Ribbon_Mics.txt

All ribbons have a pretty limited HF response, so if you're looking for bright and shiny, don't go there. The exceptions being the beyer M260 and m500 which aren't around anymore.

Ribbons are mostly used to take the edge off of something. I tracked vocals last year with Karyn Oliver. I used a U 89 and the R84 together and mixed the tracks. The result was pretty subtle, but the R84 added some thickness/smoothness to the midrange that I liked.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old July 7th, 2009, 10:42 AM   #53
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I agree with you Ty. I too have a number of Schoeps products. My favourite location mic series.

Regards
David
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Old July 7th, 2009, 11:49 AM   #54
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Have you tried the Schoeps wide cardioids? I like them for brass band stuff - Eb cornets in the wrong hands can be extremely shrill. Of course, lots of personal preference going on.
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Old July 8th, 2009, 10:09 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Rogers View Post
Michael, may I also suggest you check out ribbon mics. They can be had for prices beginning around $100-to several thousand dollars. The only down side is a good preamp is needed. Check out the AEA, Coles, or Royer ribbons. Then combine them with a Gordon or Forssell preamps, this is assuming you want to spend a load of money!!!

I am using a pair of Apex 205 ribbons that I had modded by Michael Jolly. The Apex ribbons can be had for $100-120 and the MJ mod is $219. Add a AEA TRP and you are in business for about $1200 new. The TRP shows up from time to time for $700-800 used.

No they are not Schoeps, but they have a unique character of their own.

David Rogers
Thanks David I'll look into those. I've heard of some kinda set up using a ribbon mic ( to catch the room ambiance) along with something like a Schoeps..... three mics total.

The problem with guitar is catching those high end trebles, as Ty mentioned. I think just about any decent mic will capture good bass and midrange. However, when I first heard the Schoeps I was struck by the purity, and sparkly trebles, it is hard to go back now, I've been corrupted...... in a good way.

Oddly enough it's a comparison I use with my customers to illustrate the difference between a good classical guitar. and a great classical guitar. It's all in the trebles! A guitar by default has good bass, to tweak the treble is what separates the men from the boys.

Are these ribbon mics?
YouTube - Allegro in d minor by Weiss

Michael
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Old July 8th, 2009, 10:17 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Ty Ford View Post
Thanks Michael,

Two thoughts. The Canon XL2 is standard def. As such the audio is 16-bit, 48khz. (about 1500 kbps)

Your XH-A1 does standard def, per the above, but also HDV. HDV audio is only 384 kbps MPEG 1 layer 2. Stick with Standard Def and your audio will sound better.

I used only one mic for that recording and added effects later; two different reverbs, as I recall. They gave it the space.

Regards,

Ty Ford
Ty, I wonder if one Schoeps is better than two average mics? Personally I don't mind a guitar recorded with just one mic. Again great recording. I've never used SD on my A1, but the image you got looks excellent! I wonder for Youtube if there is any noticeable different using SD as opposed to HDV.

For me the biggest difference is the settings used to compress it for uploading.

Michael
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Old July 8th, 2009, 11:37 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Michael Thames View Post
Ty, I wonder if one Schoeps is better than two average mics? Personally I don't mind a guitar recorded with just one mic. Again great recording. I've never used SD on my A1, but the image you got looks excellent! I wonder for Youtube if there is any noticeable different using SD as opposed to HDV.

For me the biggest difference is the settings used to compress it for uploading.

Michael
Michael,

Yes, one Schoeps is better than two or twenty-two average mics. Compression settings are important. I constantly play with them to try to eek out a better product.

Thanks for the compliment on the video. It does keep people coming in to get on the internet.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old July 8th, 2009, 04:18 PM   #58
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Have you tried the Schoeps wide cardioids? I like them for brass band stuff - Eb cornets in the wrong hands can be extremely shrill. Of course, lots of personal preference going on.
Jim,

Less than you might think. I was surprised when the schoeps won out over the ribbon for sax. I really like what it did. If Schoeps were just the product of whim and preference, they wouldn't cost what they do.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old July 9th, 2009, 04:04 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Thames View Post
Thanks David I'll look into those. I've heard of some kinda set up using a ribbon mic ( to catch the room ambiance) along with something like a Schoeps..... three mics total.

The problem with guitar is catching those high end trebles, as Ty mentioned. I think just about any decent mic will capture good bass and midrange. However, when I first heard the Schoeps I was struck by the purity, and sparkly trebles, it is hard to go back now, I've been corrupted...... in a good way.

Oddly enough it's a comparison I use with my customers to illustrate the difference between a good classical guitar. and a great classical guitar. It's all in the trebles! A guitar by default has good bass, to tweak the treble is what separates the men from the boys.

Are these ribbon mics?
YouTube - Allegro in d minor by Weiss

Michael
Got to beg to differ about this. It is my belief and experience that a good acoustic, either steel or nylon string designs, is characterised by an even balance across the whole of it's range from low to high and that a warm bass response which is balanced with the rest of the instruments range is not a given. A lot of lesser classical/spanish/nylon string instruments appear fine in the treble register, say above the F on 3rd string at tenth fret, but lack a good depth of tone, including a good bass response created from the instruments top resonating, and it is only the very best instruments which have an even tonal response across all registers whilst embodying a warm tone with it as opposed to an even response which is a bit tame or dull. The main achievement is evenness, The sam goes with loudspeakers and microphones.

Is it all in the treble? No. A cheap piano sounds good in the treble too but lacks the depth and evenness... here we go again. It is the same for most instruments. Maybe all.
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Old July 9th, 2009, 07:03 AM   #60
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So as not to be misconstrued, among the reasons I really like the cmc641 are that it has some pretty serious attention to detail in the midrange.

According to players of classical guitar with nylon strings I've talked to, the biggest problem is plasticky sounding 1st and 2nd strings. That's partially because these strings are unwound. Using condenser mics with a lifted top end response makes the strings sound more plasticky. The cmc641 tends not to.

Ribbon mics with their rolled off high frequency response would tend to do something sort of similar, but usually come off too cloudy or dull in the top end.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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