Distant Audio
 

Ok, when I record audio it always sounds distant. Is there a way to prevent this? I am using a shotgun mic and holding it more than 6 inches away makes it sound hollow. Is there something I am supposed to do or is it cheap equipment?

I know you are supposed to use a boom as much as possible but I am getting better audio quality from the lavalier mic I have. That I can just hide under clothes, but I want some options.

Any help would be appreciated.

-Scott

Which camera and what shotgun? How is it setup and what cable or adapters are you using?

Scott...

At an NAB seminar on production sound this past Sunday, Fred Ginsburg demonstrated how a uni-directional cardioid mic is better for indoor use than a shotgun mic for boom work.

The reason is that a shotgun is actually a bi-polar mic with substantial sensitivity to the rear. Quite a surprise to all of us there as you'd think that a shotgun mic wouldn't pick up anything except what's in front of it.

The uni mic was picked up less room ambience than the long shotgun.

The uni he demo'd was an Audio Technica 4051. Nice sounding mic.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions.

The previous post is correct. Use a "short" shotgun for interiors.

I am using the audio input on a Canon XL-1 and the mics are cheap Audio Technica mics. ATR55 shotgun and a $30 Lavalier that actually sounds pretty good. It's the shotgun that sucks as far as volume.

The ATR is a pretty low end mic, more sexy than useful. You'll do better indoors with a cardiod than with a shotgun due to how room reflections act. Needless to say, any distance greater than a few feet is too much for that level of mic to work with. Get the mic off the camera and on a stand, closer to the subject. You'll be much happier.

Apparently the hypercardopid capsule that shares the mic body used on the 4051 is considered much better. The 4053a is supposedly one of the best hypers south of $1000. Both mics are $400 at B&H if you want one of each a capsule is $196.

I think the hyper would be a better choice.
http://www.audiotechnica.com/prodpro...fo/AT4053a.pdf

A better price with a few inconveniences is the Rode NT3. The Rode sounds similar to the AT4053 but is heavier and larger. The plus is that it can be battery operated and it's only $152 at B&H

If you do have phantom then the best deal is the Oktava mco12.

Sanken short shotguns have been able to reduced the rear pickup on the CS1 and CS3 short shotguns by using multiple diaphrams. Both of these mics are expensive with the cheapest selling for $780 and the CS3 going for $1600.

I don't think Scott was asking for shopping advise. He has a shotgun and it seems to perform worse than it should. To move the microphone closer is of course good advise, but the reason for using a shotgun is often that you can not or will not move in close.
The first thing to do is to test the microphone with other cables and then, if there is no difference, with another camera or recorder. Still no difference? Try an identical mic on your camera. Then you'll know what to do.

For me the first option is a lav mic and a wireless transmitter/receiver.

If it's at a podium, then the lav is taped to the podium mic's gooseneck.

If neither is possible, then a soundman holding a boom. And if not that, then a shotgun on-camera and getting the camera as close as possible. That's where a wide-angle lens comes in handy. But that's strictly for run-and-gun shooting.

When it comes to getting good sound, nothing beats proximity.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions.

Thanks all, I am not spending any more money on this project....

The shotgun mic I am using I had planned on using as a boom so when I was testing it it was at the distance it was going to be at on the boom. So far the best sound is from the Lavalier running straight to the XL1. The ATR only sounds good from less than 2 feet away. After that it always sounds as if it were in an echo chamber and it's far away.

A possible solution is to get the mike off the camera, as someone said earlier, but make sure it is pointing down at your subject, preferably off a boom pole. Since it's camera mounted you are getting reflections from everywhere, especially nearby hard surfaces.

If the mic sounds OK within 2 feet don't bother trying cables just get the mic closer. If that's not an option then the only other recourse is to use the lav.

"He has a shotgun and it seems to perform worse than it should. "
That shotgun is very inexpensive and hasn't been well received.

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : A possible solution is to get the mike off the camera, as someone said earlier, but make sure it is pointing down at your subject, preferably off a boom pole. Since it's camera mounted you are getting reflections from everywhere, especially nearby hard surfaces. -->>>

It is NOT camera mounted. It IS on a boom pole.

Scott
I'm not suggesting you buy more gear but do have a listen to some samples of different mics. They're not mean't to be anything more than a rough idea of what you get with some of the common mics in use out there.

What environment are you attempting to use the mics in?

Just outside my apartment door.

Just outside my apartment door.
 

I take it, that it's pretty open area, are you using any sort of wind screen? Are there any adapters on the cables? Are you using the MA-100 or MA-200 microphone adapter on your canon?

It's not all that open but fairly. Not enough to get any wind though. I have the cheap windscreen on it that came with it. and I have no adapters of any kind. I have a huge long 20ft extension cable that I attached the mic to. I was actually recording with the XL1 in my bedroom while they were outside talking into it.

Wow, Uh?!?
 

SO you don't have a mic adapter, you have 20ft cable, and it's in a fairly wind free area. Jeez, I am on the verge of being stumped! The only things that pop into my head, and somebody might want to confirm this hypothesis. The set up might not have enough juice to allow it the full range that microphone might be capable of, try shortening the cable and doing some test runs. If that works, they my assumptions are correct and you will need something in between the camera and the mic to boost the signal. I doubt that is it, but hey, it doesn't hurt to try. The other hypothesis, it could be a bad mic, or something not working correctly. I wish you the best and I hope that your issue gets resolved quickly!

Use the shortest posible cable. This is an unbalanced connection and prone to interference. If the mic sounds OK within 2 feet and crappy beyond then that has more to do with an inexpensive mic. If you want it to sound good keep it as close as possible

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings but this mic is being cleared out at less than $50 and I suspect for good reason. There is an old saying "you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear". We all have items on our closet shelves that weren't what we thought they'd be.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Beasleigh : Use the shortest posible cable. This is an unbalanced connection and prone to interference. If the mic sounds OK within 2 feet and crappy beyond then that has more to do with an inexpensive mic. If you want it to sound good keep it as close as possible

I don't want to hurt anyones feelings but this mic is being cleared out at less than $50 and I suspect for good reason. There is an old saying "you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear". We all have items on our closet shelves that weren't what we thought they'd be. -->>>

You won't hurt my feelers. I know I have the cheapest possible mic. I am just looking to get the best performance out of the "crap" I have. I am only making a movie with my friends, it's nothing HIgh end I just want it to sound decent and look decent. Thanks for all the help guys :)

a long cable in your situation wouldn't lower audio levels, it would just create noise with this hi-impedence mic, but a 20ft cable is nothing to worry about. I used to use the same mic. Here's what's causing the bad audio:

1) It's a cheap mic. This is why you'll hear lots of handling noise, rattles, etc. and also the S/N ratio isn't that good so if you amplify output to good levels you'll have too much noise as well.

2) The mic has lower levels than high-end mics to begin with. You have to compensate by keeping the mic very close.

3) You weren't keeping the mic very close.

This is what I'd do in your situation:

1) Make sure everything on the boom pole is secured and sturdy, to reduce handling noise

2) Keep the mic as close as possible to the sound source. Also, make sure it's pointed correctly. A lot of inexperienced boom operators will point in the general vicinity and they'll be missing a lot of the possible output because the shotgun mic is more selective than they thought it would be. Keep a straight line from the mic to the sound source.

3) Shut windows, turn off AC's, unplug fridges, etc. to lower ambient sound. This'll let more off the speech and sound you want to be heard be hearable in the end.

That's the only suggestions I can give if you can't spend any more money.