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Old August 23rd, 2009, 02:57 AM   #1
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Audio at a concert with a z1

Hola chicos,
I wanna describe you my experience on shooting a live concert(rock).I was not able to plug the xlr cable on my z1 so i recorded the audio of the concert in AUTO mode.When i got home i draggedon the timeline of my nle sw (Vegas) and i saw that the wave sometimes goes very high (as it was overclipped).Even if was recording in Auto mode,how is it posssible to have a kind of distortion like that?I was checking the levels on the lcd and they never reached the red squares.Could you tell me your experience and the right workflow for this kind of recordings?

thx a lot


MM
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 12:23 PM   #2
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deleted.........
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 12:26 PM   #3
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<i> i saw that the wave sometimes goes very high</i>
As long as the audio does not exceed 0dB it is not clipped... at least in the digital domain...
If you would rather see a lower amplitude waveform, normalize the event. Right-click the event(s) check "Normalize" I think the default Peak is -3.0 or there abouts, but that can be changed in Preferences menu.
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Old August 23rd, 2009, 01:21 PM   #4
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Hi Rick, sorry but i didn't get the "deleted" u wrote
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Old August 24th, 2009, 02:21 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Martell View Post
Hola chicos,
I wanna describe you my experience on shooting a live concert(rock).I was not able to plug the xlr cable on my z1 so i recorded the audio of the concert in AUTO mode.When i got home i draggedon the timeline of my nle sw (Vegas) and i saw that the wave sometimes goes very high (as it was overclipped).Even if was recording in Auto mode,how is it posssible to have a kind of distortion like that?I was checking the levels on the lcd and they never reached the red squares.Could you tell me your experience and the right workflow for this kind of recordings?
Auto acts like a compressor and you can also turn on a limiter in the menu. I use auto when I'm too busy to manually adjust the gain because I'm panning, zooming and adjusting the exposure. Dynamic range reduction is far preferable than distortion. You shouldn't use the internal mic because it picks up camera noise, although in a Rock concert the loud music will mask it, just good practice to get into.
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Old August 24th, 2009, 02:27 PM   #6
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If the meters didn't go into the "red" but the audio is still distorted, it's likely that the mic ITSELF was overloaded. I bring room mics specifically for recording loud rooms as neither my camera mics OR my Sennheiser ME66 short shotgun can handle loud rock music without distorting.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 10:14 AM   #7
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From what i see on the time line the audio waves touch the border of the track, so i guess is too high even if itěs shot in auto mode!
thx
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Old August 25th, 2009, 11:46 AM   #8
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The mic itself may not be distorted as most can usually handle in excess of 120SPL. (Which would likely cause pain and hearing damage)
On many lower cost cameras and audio recorders, the front-end (pre-amp) is at a fixed level, and could be overdriven. (usually desirable on guitar amps) Reducing the volume potentiometer only lowers the digital signal, distorted or not. Auto-gain or manual would make no difference, the meters could be peaking @-20 and it would still be distorted. A less sensitive mic or in-line pad would be the remedy.
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Old August 25th, 2009, 12:08 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Rick Reineke View Post
The mic itself may not be distorted as most can usually handle in excess of 120SPL.
Unfortunately, not the case in my experience regardless of pad at the preamp. Again, I bring appropriate mics with high SPL handling and relatively low output and funnel them through the same camera preamp that doesn't like my on camera mic or ME66. Of course, your mileage may differ (and probably will!) This could also be a factor of the pickup pattern of any given mic. You can happily place an SM-58 right in front of a LOUD singer with no problem but my short shotgun WON'T be pleased...
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Old September 5th, 2009, 02:21 PM   #10
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Hi,
i was waving on theaudio menu of the z1 and i just saw that the audio limit was OFF.Maybe i had to set ON?
Other question:audio output set on 2vrms....What does it mean?

thx
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Old September 13th, 2009, 04:01 AM   #11
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Hola guys, thursday i went to see a concert and i was talking to a guy who was shooting with a z7 and i told him that usually i try to bring the volume meters of the audio between 20 and 10 and he said that's what he usually does for an interview with a lav-mic. For a concert recording the audio with a Rode Ntg1 he told me that the automatic sets "automatically" the audio to avoid the clipping................UHMMMMMM i guess i need to hear your voice guys!
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Old September 13th, 2009, 08:21 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Marcus Martell View Post
Hi,
i was waving on theaudio menu of the z1 and i just saw that the audio limit was OFF.Maybe i had to set ON?
Other question:audio output set on 2vrms....What does it mean?

thx
The Audio Limit is a limiter that prevents the audio from clipping on very high levels. HOWEVER, it only functions when the Audio Select is set to "MAN," manual level control. Whjen you're in AUTO level mode it has no effect.

The output set is to adjust the level of the signal sent to external speakers, etc, during playback and has no effect on recording.

As for the meters not going into the red yet finding the recording clipped, it's possible that the duration of the overload is too short for the meters to respond to or the eye to see yet the sound of the clipping would still be audible. Also the automatic gain control takes a certain amount of time to respond to changes in level. Let's say it's a softer passage or silence before the first note on a song - the auto gain control is trying to find a sound that isn't there and so it opens the level up. Then at the downbeat the first note comes in, a very loud guitar chord. It takes a certain amount of time for the control to close the level back down and so that first note or notes is going to be recorded at an excessively high level.

You said you recorded in Auto mode but you didn't say whether you used the internal microphone or an external one. When you said you couldn't plug in the XLR, did you mean you couldn't plug in to take a feed from the PA board or did you mean you couldn't plug in an external mic? If you did use an external mic, what mic was it?

Can you post a clip of the bad audio?
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Old September 15th, 2009, 11:43 AM   #13
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hi mate, i was recording with the internal mic!Unfortunately i couldn't attach any cable to pick the audio straight from the mixer!What r your thoughts?Thx for the attention


Later i'll ask you another question about the audio for an airshow (i've opened another post) and i don't wanna hijack this thread(btw sorry for the english)

Thx
MM
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Old September 15th, 2009, 01:48 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Marcus Martell View Post
hi mate, i was recording with the internal mic!Unfortunately i couldn't attach any cable to pick the audio straight from the mixer!What r your thoughts?Thx for the attention


Later i'll ask you another question about the audio for an airshow (i've opened another post) and i don't wanna hijack this thread(btw sorry for the english)

Thx
MM
There are a lot of pro's and con's over picking up audio from the board. The main problem is the board operator is mixing for the house audience and the result is often far from desirable for a recording. In fact, for a live-sound mix some of the instruments won't even be mic'ed ... guitar cabinets or drum sets, for example ... and maybe almost completely missing from the board feed. The best bet is to mic the performers yourself for recording, use a stereo array over or in front of the stage, that sort of thing.
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Old September 16th, 2009, 03:36 AM   #15
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Steve ,MAN YOU'r DEF da Man IN DA HOUSE!Thx a lot for your advices and help, but if u were in my shoes( is a speech we use in EU), if you have to record a concert from a central position(front of the stage), what shall you do)?Use the internal mic, setting it in auto?Or using the manual mode monitoring through headphones(as i always do) paying attention at the lines in the scale( that states -8(infinity) 40-30-20-10-0 red point) thst shouldn't go over?I guess 20-10 spot!I'm scared that if goes in auto the red point won't be touched but it will be clipped audio on the time line!

Thx a lot again

MM
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