1/8th in to XLR options at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old October 2nd, 2004, 08:25 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 484
1/8th in to XLR options

My VX2000 has a Beachtek DXA-4 mounted on a mini-rover bracket which carries the Azden SGM-X shotgun mic. The mic has an 1/8th in. stereo pin in and out and I've plugged that into a stereo to mono adapter which is then plugged into an 1/8th in. mini-pin to male XLR cable to the Beachtek (bought 2 from B&H). Lots of places for noise to be introduced. I just added the stereo to mono adapter yesterday, then experimented with taping them all together and rattling them around while monitoring the audio. It's much more dependable than it was, but I'm still not totally confident that it won't bite my bottom when I least want it to. Aside from the obvious suggestion to buy an XLR mic, is there anything I can do to minimize the risk further?

David Hurdon
David Hurdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 09:06 AM   #2
Fred Retread
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,227
This is not a stereo mic, of course. It accepts a stereo male plug and actually applies the same signal to the tip and the ring with the intention that the other end will feed both channels of the camcorder.

To minimize connections, the most direct approach is to replace the supplied cable with a stereo mini to XLR male cable, available in various lengths at B&H. You can run such an unbalanced cable up to 25 feet or so in most environments without any problems.
__________________
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge
"My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me
David Ennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 09:12 AM   #3
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockton, UT
Posts: 5,648
You can maybe run 25 feet unbalanced with a GOOD/Very high quality cable. Anything past 15 feet is a fair strong risk of induced noise depending on a number of factors. I'd balance it immediately after the mic, run cable length, then unbalance it again at the beachtek
__________________
Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot
Author, producer, composer
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
http://www.vasst.com
Douglas Spotted Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 09:41 AM   #4
Fred Retread
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,227
I'll certainly defer to Dougla's experience on the maximum advisable unbalanced cable run--on that point I was only repeating what I had read somewhere. But I infer that David's current setup calls for a very short run anyway.
__________________
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge
"My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me
David Ennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 10:08 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 484
You infer correctly, Fred, and if I read you both correctly, your advice is the same. Regardless of the run length, go to balanced in as short a distance as possible (as in your single cable solution, Fred) and stay that way until the signal leaves the Beachtek for the camcorder. Is there more to it than I've grasped?
And thank you both.

David Hurdon
David Hurdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 11:59 AM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,922
Just go 1/8 to 1/8 stereo, forget the Beach. Try it, you'll like it.

It makes no sense going through all those adapters. It'
s unbalanced from the mic anyway, just keep your cables short.

The beach is for balanced to unbalanced, you're unbalanced all the way.
__________________
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"
Bryan Beasleigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 12:21 PM   #7
Fred Retread
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,227
I'm sure Douglas would agree that my suggestion would be fine for a short run.

But I don't have an SGM-X myself, and their site has apparently glossed over a nomenclature convention, so check my assumption that it's a dual mono mic:
1. Both ends of the provided cable are three-section plugs
2. It doesn't matter which end is plugged into the mic
3. The mic does feed both channels when plugged directly into the camera's mic jack with that cable.

If so, then we're fine except for one thing. I just looked at B&H and saw that they don't specifiy how the cables I mentioned are wired--and it matters. If the tip, ring and sleeve of the plug are each connected to separate XLR pins, then it's designed to carry an actual stereo signal and it won't work for our purposes. Maybe someone who knows will chime in. You can try asking the professional audio sales guy at B&H, or you can always order one and return if it doesn't work.

Balancing the cable at the mic would require either cutting the stereo plug off an XLR to mini cable and soldering on a stereo mini plug a particular way (tip and ring to pin 2, sleeve to pin 3, no connection to pin 1), or buying a device such a balancing transformer or a "direct box."
__________________
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge
"My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me
David Ennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 12:29 PM   #8
Fred Retread
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,227
Right, Bryan unless he wants to use another source in additon the Azden.

If you go that way, David, get a cable that has a right-angled plug at the cam end to avoid damage to the cam's jack from an inadvertent whack on a protruding plug
__________________
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge
"My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me
David Ennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 12:56 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 484
I hear you, Brian, and would do that when I only need the shotgun input but the gig I'm gearing up for involves an XLR feed from a cockpit intercomm plus a mic for ambient audio, each on separate tracks in the VX2000, so the minipin cam connection is fed from the Beachtek. Fred, I knew I was clueless but not quite how clueless until you described the wiring issue. Too bad an adaptor isn't just an adapter, but wouldn't it be worse if there were nothing left to learn? That certainly isn't my problem. Thanks again.

David Hurdon
David Hurdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 12:59 PM   #10
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockton, UT
Posts: 5,648
In that event, what I'd do is this....
Get a cheap XLR adapter that goes from a female 1/8 to a male XLR. Harder to find, easy to make.
You could also get a male to female XLR adapter, and a 1/8 stereo turnaround.
Come out of the Azden 1/8 to this adapter, feed this adapter to your Beachtek.
Feed the XLR cockpit mic into the other channel of the beachtek.
Beachtek plugs into camera.
__________________
Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot
Author, producer, composer
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
http://www.vasst.com
Douglas Spotted Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 02:01 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 484
Douglas, until yesterday when I added a stereo to mono adapter to the chain, (read the suggestion somewhere) what you describe is exactly what I have been using. I got two female 1/8th in. to male XLR cables from B&H when I bought the Azden. Once I started hearing drop-outs and crackle intermittently I tried the second cable. One seems better than the other but neither has been entirely free of trouble. I've never had trouble with XLR to XLR, line in or mic. What I haven't tried is replacing the 1/8th male to male cable that came with the mic. But playing with the connections and crimping the wire at the plugs and so on hasn't revealed any repeatable failure. I've finally come to accept that those lovely, tough, locking XLR connections have a very good reason to exist, complelety apart from the balanced vs unbalanced issue. My Samson UHF true diversity wireless lav uses mini-XLR to XLR and is likewise completely dependable so far. I will replace all the cables involved with the Azden and see how that works. Thanks again.

David Hurdon
David Hurdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 05:17 PM   #12
Fred Retread
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,227
David,
According to Hosa's web site the Hosa XVM series of mini stereo male to XLR Female cables at B&H are wired correctly for your purpose, so you'd just have to add a male to male XLR coupler from Radio Shack or the like. Then you would have a simple cable with a rugged connection at the BeachTek end.

The Comprehensive brand mini stereo to male to XLR male cables at B&H would be a more elegant solution if they are wired that way too, but I haven't been able to confirm that.
__________________
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge
"My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me
David Ennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 05:25 PM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 484
Many thanks, Fred. It's very good of you to take the trouble to check this out for me. I will do as you suggest. I never cease to be amazed at the generosity of so many members on this forum.

David Hurdon
David Hurdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2004, 06:16 PM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Barrie, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,922
If B&H sells them you can bet your housecat they're wired right. Marty Wein one of our laid back members is actually an extremely knowledgeable gentleman and the buyer for B&H audio. he watches and listens, In sometimes think he may have helped write the book on cuatomer service.

As a matter of fact Hosa label the connection if there may be a problem with conventional connection protocol.

My bag contains an assortment of cables and adapters. You'll get to know what you need and then perhaps buy a soldering iron (pencil type and NOT the gun) and a "third hand" vise.

buy Jay Rose's book on DV Audio. it includes several chapters on connectoion and wiring convention.

Peruse the digital playroom

Here is the link for the book Producing Great sound for Digital Video
__________________
Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ".......holy smokin rubber lips...what a ride!"
Bryan Beasleigh is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:06 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network