Schoeps MK41 vs Sennheiser MKH-416 at DVinfo.net

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Old February 22nd, 2005, 11:28 PM   #1
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Schoeps MK41 vs Sennheiser MKH-416

I was pretty much set on buying a Sennheiser MKH-416 and after doing some listening and some research I decided to go with the Schoeps MK41. Have to give some thanks to Byran Beasleigh, Ty Ford and Matt Gettemeier for sharing their insight.

http://www.dvfreelancer.com/articles..._shootout.html

http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/cmc.html

http://www.reddingaudio.com/schoeps/usems.php
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Old February 22nd, 2005, 11:50 PM   #2
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Thanks for the nod Ray... I played around with a Schoeps and I own(ed) a 416 until recently and I'd say that you probably made the right choice. I see them as two completely different mics anyway... but it is fun owning a world class mic. (There is some debate on just how good a 416 is, but no debate around the Schoeps.) Congratulations.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 12:26 AM   #3
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Do you guys prefer the Nickle finish or the Matte gray finish?
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 02:31 AM   #4
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Yes, excellent mic!
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 02:52 AM   #5
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 06:11 AM   #6
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<<<-- Originally posted by Matt Gettemeier : Thanks for the nod Ray... I played around with a Schoeps and I own(ed) a 416 until recently and I'd say that you probably made the right choice. I see them as two completely different mics anyway... but it is fun owning a world class mic. (There is some debate on just how good a 416 is, but no debate around the Schoeps.) Congratulations. -->>>

Um, There is no debate here on the 416. It is an industry standard and has been for many years. I have one and it kills. It is, however, a shotgun. Therefore it is not the mic of choice for interiors.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 07:37 AM   #7
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You'd be surprised how many people argued with me on other sites that the 416 WASN'T all that great. I, for one, totally agree with you... I love them.

I actually had a guy from Coffee argue that the 416 isn't a warm mic and that it sounds "brittle". He thought that a CS1 was a much warmer sounding mic...

Obviously I was pulling my hair out.

Then on RAMPS there were just a couple people calling it a "dessert island mic" and then a bunch of guys pushing other choices.

When I said debate... I sure didn't mean from me. I've only argued how great the 416 is. I agree that the 416 isn't the "go to" mic for interiors, but I was surprised how well it does in many interiors... I did an informal test with the 416 and Schoeps... The 416 has VERY little tail and I guess that's why I often found it acceptable indoors (although inferior to the Schoeps indoors).
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 10:36 AM   #8
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If it had not been for the info you guys shared, I probally would not of chosen the Schoeps and had gone with the MKH-416. This is what makes DVInfo and DVXUser my favorite video sites!!

Thanks again guys!

Ray
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 01:07 PM   #9
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Have any of you guys found it necessary or tested the MK41 with the Cut 1 Filter which is usually bundled in the CMC641-C set? And if so under would conditions did you find that the Cut 1 filter was needed?

http://www.soniccircus.com/store/mer...oduct_Count=24

Regards,

Ray
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 02:17 PM   #10
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Some use it. I don't. In my ignorance, I've found the high pass filter on my mixer (Sound Devices 442) is sufficient.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 03:16 PM   #11
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Ty:

I have heard mixed opinions on using the Schoeps mounted on the camera. Some feel that it picks up too much of the motor and lens noise when mounted on the camera. What are your thoughts on this?

Regards,

Ray
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 04:14 PM   #12
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I guess it depends on how loud the camera is. Sony digital betacams, for example, are quite loud. Unless you're outside and/or in a crowd, camera monted mics of any sort will pick up the sound. Some of teh DVcams are a lot quieter than digital betacam cameras.

The Schoeps cmc641 is primarily used as a boom mic. I don't think the application discussed here was for it to be a camera mounted mic.

Once you get far enough away (over 2.5 feet, acoustics depending) you're sort of swimming around in acoustical crap anyway.

The cmc641 is a hypercardioid. As such, it doesn't have the reach of shotgun. But then a shotgun has all sorts of mid and low frequency stuff coming in off axis in a really nasty way.

If you're on a TV set, you can use the shotgun because there are usually no parallel walls and usually not a ceiling. In sitcoms and talk shows (when body mics aren't used.) A shotgun or three work nicely. The person mixing usually does a mix and splits each shotgun to a separate (iso) track, only going to the iso tracks if needed in post production.

For film style on a boom, with normal interiors, the schoeps wins as long as you can get within two feet. In some cases folks also hang sound blankets on reflective surfaces (not seen by the camera) to knock down the bounce.

Finally, in some highly reflective areas, where you can't get a boom close enough with the schoeps, omni body mics split tracked are the best solution.

Ya don't know until you try several approaches sometimes. That's why I like to talk to the producer before the about the location and shot setup. Sometimes I can help him/her from making an audio nightmare.

Regards,

Ty Ford
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 06:22 PM   #13
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Ty:

I am going to be shooting a martial arts instructional series. The lavs don't work because of the action. Most of the shooting will be indoors except when we do some weapons outdoors. I could probally get a student to hold a boom if available, but I would expect that they would have no or little experience at it.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 08:35 PM   #14
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Boom op is not an entry level position.

I would try several approaches.....

wireless lav. transmitter taped to an arm or leg or ace bandage with the xmitter wrapped up inside.

PZMs mounted to the ceiling if it's a low ceiling.

I'd have to see the space.

Ty
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 10:21 PM   #15
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I helped a local buddy of mine do a martial arts series and we used Lectro wireless and we shot two angles with a ck-69 long and a 416 (both my guns at the time... he liked the 416 so much he bought it a couple months ago)... Anyway we got pretty good sound but I'd have liked to get a hyper up close to the action, but out of sight, and then run some long XLRS back to the cam. If you can stand mount or boom your Schoeps (or something else) then proximity will yield the best results. In every thread like this I feel like talking about audio is like dancing about architecture (somebody else said that first)... once you get your mic going and play around with it for a while you're going to find out what it's best at... then you'll force the situation to work accordingly... either by moving the mountain to mohammed or vice versa.
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