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Old May 28th, 2005, 06:02 AM   #1
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best in camera mic(s) to record live music in club/bar venue ?

Single camera shoots using Sony PD170. The venues are typically small clubs, restaurants or basically....a bar, a band and a dance space.

Have found patching off the in-house board is limited since it's usually adjusted for what sounds "good" for the house but seems too shallow for an audio recording since some of the instruments are not mic'd thus not manipulated through the board.

The stock mic is ok.

Since there are 2 audio channel inputs has anyone had pleasing results by combining different mics? Any recommendations?

The purpose of the recording is mostly for the bands' personal scrap book but has the potential to be used in promotional material.

Sometimes I go handheld which creates a whole new set of audio challenges that probably is best to address in a separate thread.

thnx
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Old May 28th, 2005, 05:43 PM   #2
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I don't want to sound like a broken record, but the AT873r would work well in this role for camera mounted use.
For stationary setups and recording in stereo, a pair of AT3031's would work.
Both of these mics have high max SPL ratings and would work well with your camera's MicATT setting in loud situations.
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Old May 28th, 2005, 06:03 PM   #3
 
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I"m a huge fan of the 3031's, they sound great in difficult situations.
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Old May 28th, 2005, 08:06 PM   #4
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Appreciate the quick response !

A pair of AT3031's seems a smart place to start.

Please excuse this naive question, but to have a robust setup for the kind of recording I'll be doing would I also need to get any other additional gear other than the mics ? Stuff like a phantom power supply etc. ?

Any suggestions as to how to position the microphones for the best results?

For example, one of the venues is a basic rectangle. The stage is against one wall approx. 15' across by 8' deep. The dance space is directly in front of the stage (hardwood floor), tables/chairs are on each side of the dance floor.

The camera will be set up slightly left of center stage about 25' from the leading edge of the stage. The walls have been strategically fitted with acoustic dampering material by a pro sound guy to manipulate room reverberation.

The "sweet spot" for the music seems to center in the dance space.

Sometimes the place is packed, sometimes not, so the ambient noise is unpredictable.

~kb
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Old May 28th, 2005, 09:06 PM   #5
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I use a Beachtek DXA-8 XLR adapter with my GL2, but I believe the PD170 provides phantom power, doesn't it?

I record stereo from the stage with a pair of 3031's when the talent isn't miked through the house board. I use two of these shockmounts:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=300643&is=REG

I place them on this mounting bracket, which is itself mounted on a simple mic stand I got at a music store.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=272480&is=REG

I angle the mics at about 100 from each other in the same plane, with their front ends within about 1/32" of touching each other. The one on the right feeds the left channel, and vice-versa. Since the mics are pointed away from the center, each one picks up the center more weakly than the side it's facing, but the two add to form the center of the stereo image. This is known as an XY coincident pair. It's not the only arrangement of mics for stereo and it has its limitations in terms of the spaciousness of the stereo image, but it's simple, requires only two mics and is fine for musical groups. Of course, you need to place them about as far back as the band grouping is wide, and that may be your biggest problem.

Another approach is to take a mono mix from the board in one channel and a well placed mic in the other. In post you can balance them for the best mix of purity and ambience. This is always my first choice when the house mixer is in use with the MONO OUT jack available (which it usually is). I use one of my 3031 for the ambience mic.
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Old May 29th, 2005, 07:38 AM   #6
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Fred, how do the 3031s sound when used for live bands, such
as may be found in bars? Pretty good balance of treble and base?
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Old May 29th, 2005, 07:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Massengill
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but the AT873r would work well in this role for camera mounted use.
For stationary setups and recording in stereo, a pair of AT3031's would work.
What do you think of using an AT3032 camera-mounted
for this use?
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Old May 30th, 2005, 03:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
I"m a huge fan of the 3031's, they sound great in difficult situations.
What would you think of using a couple of the
omni 3032s to record a bar band instead of the
3031s?
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Old May 30th, 2005, 03:41 AM   #9
 
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Mounted in an XY or AB configuration, at distance from stage, they'd be pretty good, and since they're omni, you'd get a little more bass punch due to the lack of the proximity effect.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 05:17 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Douglas Spotted Eagle
Mounted in an XY or AB configuration, at distance from stage, they'd be pretty good, and since they're omni, you'd get a little more bass punch due to the lack of the proximity effect.
So you're saying that omnis pick up more bass
than cardioids at a distance? Regarding "proximity
effect", I have thought mostly about how directional
mics get more bass as they get near to the source,
but now I'm wondering if the converse is true: that
when not real close to the source that directional mikes have less bass than the omnis. Is this correct?
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Old May 30th, 2005, 10:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Largent
Fred, how do the 3031s sound when used for live bands, such
as may be found in bars? Pretty good balance of treble and base?
Dave, it's not live bands but choral performances and actor dialog that I've recorded in stereo. But my impression is that the balance is good. A good test of an individual 3031 should be the Jazz concert I taped last week. It's in my queue, but I haven't listened to it or captured it yet. I'll let you know what I hear.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 11:18 AM   #12
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Could I use the ORTF method with a pair of 3031's and get a decent stereo image ?
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Old May 30th, 2005, 12:56 PM   #13
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I haven't experimented with near-coincident arrays or any other two mic variations because stereo is the exception rather than the rule for me, but I should think that AT3031s would be ideal for ORTF. They're cardioid, reasonably sensitive, and have an excellent frequency response curve.
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Old May 30th, 2005, 02:00 PM   #14
 
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As a general rule, omni mics will have a smoother bottom end than cards, yes.
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