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Old October 14th, 2009, 11:05 AM   #31
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If you will be taking a feed from a pro console type mixer, in general, this will be +4dB via an 1/4" TRS. The PMD661's XLRs have a mic/line switch. 'Most' of the solid state recorder's 1/8" input (front end) cannot handle +4dB, So you may very well need an attenuator if you go that route.

I find the Rayovac "Hybrid" AA's work very well.
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Old October 14th, 2009, 11:09 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bryan Daugherty View Post
I have looked at the 661 too and am not sure it is worth the price difference. What, in your experience, makes it a better choice than the 660?
PMD660: 16 bits, 48KHz, S/N only 60dB (Mic), 80dB (Line)
PMD661: 24 bits, 96KHz, S/N 65dB (Mic), 85dB (Line)

Here you see a 20dB lower S/N performance, indicating mic-preamp is not very quiet.

However, 661 perform 3 times higher resolution to 660. Or, you can compare a 4M pixel camera with a 12M pixel camera. (Based on file size)

I don't like these 2 recorders to my personal taste. They are too bulky, I only try them in a trade show.

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Originally Posted by Bryan Daugherty View Post

Sound devices Mix Pre = $665
Zoom H4N = $299
sub total = $964

Marantz 660 = $469
that is a savings of $495 or 106% savings, not sure I am understanding where the lower cost comes in.


In my experience you do need XLR when getting fed from the board.
My wireless receiver uses XLR. I have tried trading out with a 1/8 mini and always get noise.

Anthony, thanks for your thoughts. If you could clarify on any of these points it would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Sound Devices MixPre, dynamic range is 110dB (It is so quiet).
If you take a low cost recorder such as Tascam DR-07 (I just found $144), you can get 87dB SN via line input.

You get much better pre-amp, and a decent limiter. Meaning you can get a hotter level, and keep a higher S/N result.

After a year or 2, you can keep the MixPre, and get a even better recorder without lossing a great value. (MixPre holds its value, most of the ebay items sold over 500.)

Feed from the board issue...leave your recorder next to the console, get the feed from the "tape out" which usually is unbalanced output.

Feed from the wireless, most portable receiver provides un-balanced output. Especially line level if there is one. Get a line level feed is a better choice.

Well, this is my case, and I do DIY all kinds of converters, or custom cables. Hope this help.
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Old October 14th, 2009, 11:10 AM   #33
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Edirol!

Consider the Edirol R-44 4 ch portable recorder. Very flexible flash recorder. But, a little bit more expensive.
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Old October 14th, 2009, 12:13 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Rick Reineke View Post
I find the Rayovac "Hybrid" AA's work very well.
Thanks Rick, I will look into those batteries.

What do the rest of you guys use? Fresh one-shot batteries or rechargeables?

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Old October 14th, 2009, 06:29 PM   #35
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Old October 14th, 2009, 08:59 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Reineke View Post
If you will be taking a feed from a pro console type mixer, in general, this will be +4dB via an 1/4" TRS. The PMD661's XLRs have a mic/line switch. 'Most' of the solid state recorder's 1/8" input (front end) cannot handle +4dB, So you may very well need an attenuator if you go that route...
Having borrowed a colleague's unit and rented this unit (PMD 660) for past events I have used it on a total of 6 events spaced out over 3 years. Every time, I have been offered only XLR from the mixing board, not once did they offer TRS. A couple years before that, I had to beg for RCA connection to rig a CD-recorder for a friend who is a singer-songwriter who wanted a master CD of his live show at a large venue. In my experience, you need XLR inputs for a(n XLR) feed from the sound board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Ching View Post
PMD660: 16 bits, 48KHz, S/N only 60dB (Mic), 80dB (Line)
PMD661: 24 bits, 96KHz, S/N 65dB (Mic), 85dB (Line)
Here you see a 20dB lower S/N performance, indicating mic-preamp is not very quiet.

However, 661 perform 3 times higher resolution to 660. Or, you can compare a 4M pixel camera with a 12M pixel camera. (Based on file size)

I don't like these 2 recorders to my personal taste. They are too bulky, I only try them in a trade show...
It is my understanding that unless you want to risk sync drift, you should always record audio for video at 48KHz sample rate unless you have TC syncing capability. So how are you able to get the "higher resolution" without running into sync drift? I am probably one of the few people who likes the size of the Marantz unit compared to the tascom and zoom units....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Ching View Post
...Sound Devices MixPre, dynamic range is 110dB (It is so quiet)...You get much better pre-amp, and a decent limiter. Meaning you can get a hotter level, and keep a higher S/N result...Feed from the board issue...leave your recorder next to the console, get the feed from the "tape out" which usually is unbalanced output.

Feed from the wireless, most portable receiver provides un-balanced output. Especially line level if there is one. Get a line level feed is a better choice...
I won't argue the point that the MixPre is better at field mixing. I think that goes without saying. At this time (as noted in the original post and re-post) my budget is $500 and the Mix pre with any recorder is outside the range. But I will keep it in mind for future investment. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I have used one of it's big brothers in the past (can't remember the model but it was in the $1100-$1400 range and had meters that ran in an arc across the side) and thought it was great but too expensive for my needs, the Mixpre could be a good solution in the future.

My wireless receiver is a line level feed but I have yet to find a 1/8"-1/8" cable that isn't noisy with this receiver. Oddly enough, the 1/8" to dual XLR that shipped with the receiver is quiet as could be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arild Pedersen View Post
Consider the Edirol R-44 4 ch portable recorder. Very flexible flash recorder. But, a little bit more expensive.
Arild, thanks for the suggestion but as noted it is outside of my price range for this round. I think if I were to go higher end I would rather invest in the Edirol F-1. Both are outside of my budget range, though so they will fall into the someday bin...
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Old October 15th, 2009, 04:28 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Daugherty View Post
It is my understanding that unless you want to risk sync drift, you should always record audio for video at 48KHz sample rate unless you have TC syncing capability. So how are you able to get the "higher resolution" without running into sync drift? I am probably one of the few people who likes the size of the Marantz unit compared to the tascom and zoom units....

My wireless receiver is a line level feed but I have yet to find a 1/8"-1/8" cable that isn't noisy with this receiver. Oddly enough, the 1/8" to dual XLR that shipped with the receiver is quiet as could be.
Yeah, seems PMD661 could be the right one for you. It is a little over 500.

There is no syncing problem between Sound Devices 722 (none TC version) at 96KHz with EX-1. But I experienced 48KHz drift with Olympus LS-10 and EX-1. (20 minutes+ clip)
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