2in1Q: Best Condenser and Best Shotgun microphones at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 14th, 2009, 01:14 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hartford, VT
Posts: 201
2in1Q: Best Condenser and Best Shotgun microphones

Greetings Folks,

I have two questions about microphones:

I have a Shure SM58 and I am very happy with it. The reason why I picked a SM58 is because is the one of the best and the most used dynamic microphone in the world. And on price and quality is the best balanced one as far as I'm concern. I need two more microphones. A condenser mic for voice over and studio vocals and a shotgun to mount on top of my Panasonic HMC150 to shoot a short movie.

1) What is the SM58 equivalent for a condenser microphone?
2) What is the SM58 equivalent for a shotgun microphone?

What I mean with 'equivalent' is in terms of quality, popularity (industry standard) and price.

Thank you very much as always for your advice!!

Peace,

Ben Tolosa
Ben Tolosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009, 06:51 PM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taipei
Posts: 63
Shure SM58 is kind of live sound "Stage Standard".

1> Neumann U87, Studio condenser standard.
2> Sennheiser MKH416, Outdoor shotgun standard.

Consider the cost, you may take Shure KSM32 or even much lower price Superlux CMH8A for 1, and Audio Technica AT875 for 2.
__________________
Got 3 'S': Schoeps, Sound Devices, and Sony.
Anthony Ching is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009, 07:15 PM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
I have to agree with Anthony.

1> Neumann U87, Studio condenser standard.
(Though in a music recording studio an AKG 414 is more versatile. and don't forget the 57' for the snare.. and the 421s and the... )

2> Sennheiser MKH416, Outdoor shotgun standard.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009, 09:23 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hartford, VT
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Ching View Post
Shure SM58 is kind of live sound "Stage Standard".

1> Neumann U87, Studio condenser standard.
2> Sennheiser MKH416, Outdoor shotgun standard.

Consider the cost, you may take Shure KSM32 or even much lower price Superlux CMH8A for 1, and Audio Technica AT875 for 2.
Anthony: Do you know if there is definitely a big difference between the MKH416 and the AT875, since the AT is almost 10 times cheaper?

THANKS!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Reineke View Post
I have to agree with Anthony.

1> Neumann U87, Studio condenser standard.
(Though in a music recording studio an AKG 414 is more versatile. and don't forget the 57' for the snare.. and the 421s and the... )

2> Sennheiser MKH416, Outdoor shotgun standard.
Thank you Anthony and Nick!!

I appreciate the input very much!!

Have a nice week ^_^
Ben Tolosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2009, 02:57 PM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BC, Canada
Posts: 67
On-camera is pretty much the last place to put your mic if you want good sound for your short.
Jordan Block is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2009, 12:23 PM   #6
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taipei
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tolosa View Post
Anthony: Do you know if there is definitely a big difference between the MKH416 and the AT875, since the AT is almost 10 times cheaper?

THANKS!!



Thank you Anthony and Nick!!

I appreciate the input very much!!

Have a nice week ^_^
Hi Ben, if you put the shotgun on the camera, AT875, MKH416, even CMIT5 won't show too much difference.

The position of the microphone is the most important factor. When you can set the microphone at the sweet spot, difference between microphones mean a lot. My 2 pennies.
__________________
Got 3 'S': Schoeps, Sound Devices, and Sony.
Anthony Ching is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 16th, 2009, 09:47 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hartford, VT
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordan Block View Post
On-camera is pretty much the last place to put your mic if you want good sound for your short.
Jordan,

Where would you recommend then?

Thanks much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Ching View Post
Hi Ben, if you put the shotgun on the camera, AT875, MKH416, even CMIT5 won't show too much difference.

The position of the microphone is the most important factor. When you can set the microphone at the sweet spot, difference between microphones mean a lot. My 2 pennies.
Thank you Anthony!

Could you give me an example, let's say between a MKH416 and an AT875?

Regards!
Ben Tolosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Taipei
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tolosa View Post
Thank you Anthony!

Could you give me an example, let's say between a MKH416 and an AT875?

Regards!
There is the best example by Dan Brockett
As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone
__________________
Got 3 'S': Schoeps, Sound Devices, and Sony.
Anthony Ching is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2009, 07:25 AM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tolosa View Post
Jordan,

Where would you recommend then?

Thanks much!
Even shotgun mics work best at relatively short ranges, in the vicinity of 3 feet, give or take, from the talent. Best position is on a boom with the mic held just out of frame, above and to the front of the talent so its axis is aimed directly at their throat at about a 45 degree angle down from horizontal. Shotguns to NOT magnify distant sounds. What they do is reduce the sensitivity to sounds arriving from the sides of the mic.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2009, 08:04 AM   #10
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 1,383
Sorry to beat down your post but, We see this all the time... "What is the Best ....."
And when someone replies with an answer, you get back, oh well that microphone is too expensive.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!
If you are going to ask advice about purchasing gear, be honest with yourself, and those people you are asking for advice.

Example.
Hi, I am looking for a microphone that will excel at exterior location sound along with a boom. and my budget for this is...$000
We currently already have the following gear, and we will be using this new mic setup for.

All the Best!

Dave
David W. Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2009, 02:12 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bothell Washington
Posts: 174
If anyone is on a budget they should do the research and shop on Ebay.

I bought an old Sennheiser MKH416 for 1/10th the price of new (It still had the ABC Wide World of Sports label on it).
Mark Boyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2009, 05:35 PM   #12
DVCreators.Net
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 888
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tolosa View Post

Could you give me an example, let's say between a MKH416 and an AT875?
As others have mentioned, the well positioned $199 AT875R will spank a poorly positioned $1199 MKH416.

I'd recommend investing in the Sound for Film and Television DVD Amazon.com: Sound for Film and Television: Barry Green, David Jimerson, Matt Gettemeier: Movies & TV to get a few real world examples of professional microphones in working environments. This will help you to better understand what gear you might want to buy/rent and what people/knowledge you would want to have on set to ensure that you get the best sound.

If it's apple to apples positioning wise - here's what a $149 RODE Videomic sounds like in the same position as the 416. DVeStore’s Shotgun Shootout at DVcreators.net
__________________
Guy Cochran
DVinfo Sponsor, Cool Gear - DVeStore!
Guy Cochran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2010, 01:19 AM   #13
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Hartford, VT
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Ching View Post
There is the best example by Dan Brockett
As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone
Anthony,

Thanks for the link. I read about the AT875R in it and it was very helpful. Overall, a super nice article that I recommend to anybody interesting in shotgun mics.

Thanks very much!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve House View Post
Even shotgun mics work best at relatively short ranges, in the vicinity of 3 feet, give or take, from the talent. Best position is on a boom with the mic held just out of frame, above and to the front of the talent so its axis is aimed directly at their throat at about a 45 degree angle down from horizontal. Shotguns to NOT magnify distant sounds. What they do is reduce the sensitivity to sounds arriving from the sides of the mic.
Steve,

Thank you for the tip. I did not know it, but I am here to learn.
Thanks for teaching me,

Regards ^_^

Quote:
Originally Posted by David W. Jones View Post
Sorry to beat down your post but, We see this all the time... "What is the Best ....."
And when someone replies with an answer, you get back, oh well that microphone is too expensive.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!
If you are going to ask advice about purchasing gear, be honest with yourself, and those people you are asking for advice.

Example.
Hi, I am looking for a microphone that will excel at exterior location sound along with a boom. and my budget for this is...$000
We currently already have the following gear, and we will be using this new mic setup for.

All the Best!

Dave
Dave,

No need to get upset with me all right? I am here in peace and learning. I am sorry if I do not meet your expectations, but I am doing my best.

About your request, here is my answer:

Hi, I am looking for a mic that will serve me as a good resource for interviews indoors and outdoors, but I am NOT planing using it with a boom pole. Just over my camera. I do have budget for lavalier mics and for a wireless system (AT1821 with two AT899s), but I also have some budget for a shotgun mic of 500 bucks. I have a HMC-150. I definitely don't want to spend more than that, unless it is really worth it.

Dave, I hope this meets your expectations. I wish you a very successful 2010!

Peace friend,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Boyer View Post
If anyone is on a budget they should do the research and shop on Ebay.

I bought an old Sennheiser MKH416 for 1/10th the price of new (It still had the ABC Wide World of Sports label on it).
Mark,

That was a GREAT deal. Specially if still performs well.

Thanks for the tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Cochran View Post
As others have mentioned, the well positioned $199 AT875R will spank a poorly positioned $1199 MKH416.

I'd recommend investing in the Sound for Film and Television DVD Amazon.com: Sound for Film and Television: Barry Green, David Jimerson, Matt Gettemeier: Movies & TV to get a few real world examples of professional microphones in working environments. This will help you to better understand what gear you might want to buy/rent and what people/knowledge you would want to have on set to ensure that you get the best sound.

If it's apple to apples positioning wise - here's what a $149 RODE Videomic sounds like in the same position as the 416. DVeStore’s Shotgun Shootout at DVcreators.net
Guy,

I just added that DVD and my 'wish list'.

Thanks for the advise very much!

Regards ^_^
Ben Tolosa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2010, 07:08 AM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
...
About your request, here is my answer:

Hi, I am looking for a mic that will serve me as a good resource for interviews indoors and outdoors, but I am NOT planing using it with a boom pole. Just over my camera. I do have budget for lavalier mics and for a wireless system (AT1821 with two AT899s), but I also have some budget for a shotgun mic of 500 bucks. I have a HMC-150. I definitely don't want to spend more than that, unless it is really worth it.
It is going to be very difficult to use a mic at the camera position that will give you a professional sounding interview recording. For pleasing images the camera has to be much farther away from the subject than any mic ought to be placed to capture good sounding recordings. You really need to get the mic off the camera and up close and personal with the talent - there are other ways to do that besides a boom pole but that's certainly the most common approach. I know when you see ENG news crews working, the camera invariably has a shotgun mic mounted on it but they are normally NOT using that mic to shoot interviews. It's there to capture general ambient sounds and as a fall-back where things are happening NOW and there's no time to rig a proper mic. Then there's the difficulty with shotgun mics used indoors on other than an acoustically treated soundstage -they just do not handle indirect sound very well and and indirect reflected sound abounds in normal residential and office locations. That leads to distorted "ringy" recordings that sound like you were shooting down in a metal culvert when you use a shotgun indoors.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 3rd, 2010, 09:52 AM   #15
Trustee
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Little Rock
Posts: 1,383
As Steve suggested, it will be very difficult to get professional results shooting your film with the microphone attached to the camera.
__________________
David W. Jones
www.joneshdfilms.com
David W. Jones is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:39 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network