Sound for a HDSLR system for Micro-Budget Indie Newbie?

[Dan Brockett]

The best advice in this thread is the suggestion that you hire a pro sound mixer. All of the Zooms, mics, painters poles and cables in the world aren't going to get you in the realm of what an experienced sound mixer can do almost effortlessly.

I know sound pretty well. The more I learn about it, the more I realize that it needs to be recorded by a professional dedicated to doing nothing on set but sound. Sound is too important to DIY it when you don't do it for a living. Camera ops, friends, producers and PAs make lousy sound mixers, hire someone who is good at it.

Dan

[Graeme Hay]

Originally Posted by Dan Brockett

The best advice in this thread is the suggestion that you hire a pro sound mixer.

If I can find someone who can do good sound I'll use them, however I don't have the budget to pay for a professional mixer. I'll just try to capture the best sound I can and go from there.

Thanks for all the advice everyone.

[Brandon Paschal]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

For external recording, I'd start with the H4n and then see if the sound is good enough. If so, there's no need for the external preamp.

juicedLink has very clean preamps, but they are built for 1/8" unbalanced connections, rather than balanced XLR connections to the recorder.

Jon ... to be clear, I saw in your "noise" vimeo video that the JuicedLink was good, but you state above that it is primarily for 1/8" connections. I plan on using a Rode NTG-1, which of course is XLR w/ a 7D. Since there's no magic lantern (as of yet), would it still perform acceptably in your opinion?

Thanks!

--Brandon

[Jon Fairhurst]

I have a friend who is using an NTG-2 a juicedLink CX211 and MagicLatern on the 5D and it's nice and quiet. The NTG-1 is similar to the NTG-2, but without the battery. The NTG-1 has slightly better dynamic range.

With the 7D, consider the CX231 (it has phantom) and the juicedLink DN101. The DN101 will override the auto-gain on the 7D. I recently got a DN101 and plan to do a review when I can get some time.

[Brandon Paschal]

Jon,

Thanks to you and all for the prompt responses. I've heard folks state the off-camera sound solutions are likely to sound better - even from local sales folks. However, the truth is often in the data and for those who are certain to have tried it.

Again, w/ the NTG-1 or G2 wireless mics, my takeaway from the video is that the incamera solution is comparable?

Thanks,

--Brandon

[Peer Landa]

Originally Posted by Brandon Paschal

I've heard folks state the off-camera sound solutions are likely to sound better - even from local sales folks. However, the truth is often in the data and for those who are certain to have tried it.

I agree -- I tend to rely on raw data rather than on someone's opinion (whom I've never met before). Hence, I suggest that you check out the data sheet of the following setup and compare that to the other recommendations you're getting:

For my 5DMKII I use an onboard Ambient shotgun mic along with their tiny mixer. Ambient is a small German manufacturer comprised of some friendly & brilliant people. Although their stuff is a bit pricy I'm very happy with the microphone & mixer I got -- it's very small yet the sound quality is topnotch (the mixer even has switchable high-pass filters). Here's the Ambient website: Ambient Produkte Microphones

I'm also using a Sennheiser G3 lav kit that I route into the camera through the Ambient mixer, (and then in post balance/mix the two signals). Prior to the G3 I used an Azden 500UDR Dual-Channel UHF that wasn't as linear as the Sennheiser:
Sennheiser Worldwide - ew 122-p G3

For more critical jobs, I'd use a Sony PCM D1 (or a D50) recorder as a dual system (and then hand-sync it in post). Although those are quite pricy, I'm still happy with the price/performance of those recorders -- linear, high quality, and compact.
Sony Product Detail Page - PCMD1
Sony Product Detail Page - PCMD50

In this silly video you can see how I've mounted the onboard Ambient shotgun mic and the mixer:

My Camera... manhandled by Jessica on Vimeo

-- peer

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Brandon Paschal

J...my takeaway from the video is that the incamera solution is comparable?

External recording isn't always better. We have a MicroTrack II, and in-camera is way better.

Comparing the JL/5D2/ML combo to the H4n, both have similar noise levels with the in-camera sound being slightly cleaner. The JL/5D2/ML is also crisper, but a bit harsh. I believe that I'm hearing some aliasing. The H4n is a bit mushier and less harsh.

Both systems deliver "pro" quality, in that they both sound competent in most situations. They aren't audiophile quality though. Neither delivers that sweet combination of sparkle and smoothness that you can get with top equipment.

For most uses, the JL/5D2/ML and H4n will do the job. But for a feature film with a real budget, I'd spend more than a few hundred dollars on my recorder/preamp. And, I'd want some $1k+ mics to match.

Anyway, external doesn't necessarily deliver better audio. But for the best audio, it will be external - and it won't be cheap!

[Brandon Paschal]

Peer, thanks for sharing. Nice size rig you have there. I take it like you like your z-Finder?

Jon, again - I appreciate it. I am settled on the JL to start, and I'll acquire some personal insight myself. I still believe the audio look you had on the various options was thorough and sufficient for me starting my DSLR campaign.

Best regards!

--Brandon

[Marco Leavitt]

Graeme, I just deleted my previous post because it was kind of mean, but do you really have paying clients you intend to charge? I have reservations about whether you have the experience to be attempting that. From your posts, it does not seem likely that your audio will turn out well.