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Old April 2nd, 2010, 03:37 AM   #1
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high-end quality compact mounted shotgun mic

Dear friends,

I am looking for a better main shotgun microphone mounted on a Panasonic AG-HMC150 (151 Europe). I need this mic to give me the best results in crowded room (parties, weddings, short direct interviews) where I need to catch as much speech as I can. First I wanted to be compact so I bought VERY short MXL FR 303 Shotgun. It is a huge improvement. I would say unbelievable outcome I could stay with. But the sound is a bit bassy. Like you want to trun on some High Pass filter.

My question:

1. How different is Sennheiser MKH416P48U3 or any other shotgun mic in this or maybe higher ragne?

2. Will I be able to fit those PRO microphones to my little Panasonic AG-HMC151? Do not forget this camcorder has precious 28mm wide range. Some say they see their RODE NTG2 when lens is wide open.

I know boom mounted is the best way to go but sometimes I have to stay lightweight and light on client's price. This search maybe sound crazy. You could say go with the Rode NTG-1. But I take this accessory as something I can invest to because it will stay with me no matter what camcorder is next.

Suggestions, opinions, recommendations are welcomed. Thank you!
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 07:46 AM   #2
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Hi Lukas,
Although the 416 is one of my workhorse mics I would think that it is a little long for mounting on your camera; or any camera for that fact. You may find that's the case with all medium and long shotgun mics. You might want to look at something like the Audio-Technica AT875R. It seems to be getting good reviews. Rycote makes an excellent camera mounting package. Check it out at Trew audio.
Cheers
Jon
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 08:38 AM   #3
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The Rode NTG-1 and NTG-2 are essentially the same mic, the only difference being that the NTG-2 has an internal battery while the NTG-1 requires external phantom. Because of the battery area, the NTG-2 has to be somwhat longer. So if you're thinking about a Rode but are worried about the length of the NTG-2 intruding into your frame, the NTG-1 might be the better choice since it's the shorter of the two. As far as sound quality goes, they're identical.

The bass'ness you note with your MXL may well be due to the distance your mic is from the subject you're filming rather than a flaw in the mic per se. That's part of the problem with ANY shotgun at the camera position, be it a $200 Rode or a $2000 Schoeps. Contrary to popular belief, shotgun mics DO NOT reach out and pick up distant sounds; they're not the sound recording equivalent of a telephoto lens. The camera is usually simply too far away from the subject for a mic alongside it to record their voices without distortion. Even the best short shotguns need to be no more than about 24 inches (2/3 metre) away from the subject's mouth to pick up that clear, natural sound we hear in the movie theatre.

The Sennheider 416 is an excellent mic but upgrading to it may not resolve the issues you're experiencing.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 04:35 PM   #4
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I have the Sanken CS-1 on my EX1 and it is excellent. It's also short which is why I bought it. If you want a better mic which is also short then the Sanken CS-3e would be the one to look at. Both these mics were designed by Sanken for on camera duties.
On the downside the CS-1 really needs the K-Tek mount that's made specifically for it.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 09:36 PM   #5
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The AT-4073 is very light, short, has higher than normal sensitivity and has a really nice 'presence' peak. Very effective ENG type work.
But as Steve pointed out, any mic mounted on a camera, "is still a camera mic".
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 10:14 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukas Fronk View Post
I need this mic to give me the best results in crowded room (parties, weddings, short direct interviews) where I need to catch as much speech as I can.
In that environment any shotgun mic is going to pick up the crowd noise behind it, behind you.

A camera mounted mic of any kind is pretty limited. If you can't afford a boom operator to do it correctly then you might try a good supercardioid for it's slightly wider pattern with more natural sounding rejection to the sides and back. It'll also be shorter than a shotgun.

Last edited by Kirk Candlish; April 3rd, 2010 at 01:39 AM.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 10:43 PM   #7
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Kirk - just a question. I have a 641 but don't use it on camera. Since the hypercardioids do have a sensitivity lobe at the back of the pattern (180 degrees) I've always worried that it would really pick up the noises I make by camera handling.

Usually if it's boomed, the rear lobe is pointing more or less toward the ceiling so I would think that the rear sensitivity should be less of a problem

Have you found that my worry about picking up operator noise is not such a big issue?
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 01:29 AM   #8
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Here are the 641 and 416 pickup patterns.
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Old April 3rd, 2010, 01:36 AM   #9
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Here is a good article you should read.

As I Hear It - Choosing the Right Microphone
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Old April 7th, 2010, 12:12 PM   #10
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Thank you, remarks, questions

Thank you all.

I take your suggestions seriously and agree. If there is no boom operator I am almost even with every shotgun mounted on a camera. I only replaced that MXL FR 303 shotgun to Rode NTG-1. I would buy NTG-3 but it is too long for 28mm Panasonic.

Careful, MXL's windscreen was so loose! It completely fell off twice in the field. No original dead cat. Due to mics shortness even unoriginal was hard to find.

The only problem I have is the NTG-1 Dead Cat Wind Muff. Again 28mm on AG-HMC151. Scissors?

What is the practical difference between:
Rode | Dead Cat Wind Muff for NTG-1 and NTG-2 | DEAD CAT | B&H
and
Rode | WS6 Deluxe Windshield for the NTG2 and NTG1 | WS6 | B&H


Is there a company that will tune up my own label or no label on its wind screen? Their logo is so blunt:
Rode | WSVM Shotgun Wind Screen | WSVM | B&H Photo Video
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Old April 17th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #11
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Take a close look at the AKG 568. It sounds excellent, better than most short shotguns have a right to. I've used most and without going into the $1000+ range, I believe this takes it...
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Old April 19th, 2010, 07:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hartney View Post
Take a close look at the AKG 568. It sounds excellent, better than most short shotguns have a right to. I've used most and without going into the $1000+ range, I believe this takes it...
AKG mics were always notorious at suffering from humidity and started crackling earlier than most other mics - however good they sounded in dry conditions.

Despite my own short gun being the Neumann KMR 81i (bought in 1983), I would normally recommend the Sennheiser RF condensers for outdoor camera use due to their proven reliability in all conditions.
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