Great sound on live news - how? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 24th, 2010, 07:37 AM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 20
Great sound on live news - how?

I know clothes rustle when using lavalier mics is a never ending issue and has been mentioned a lot but perhaps this is a slightly different question about it.

I've watched a lot of news programmes recently and noticed the presenters and guests are always mic'd up with lavaliers but the sound is great. Considering how much they move I can't say I ever hear much -if any- cothes rustle or hand rubbing. I know these shows probably employ great sound people who position the mic well, but it really seems impossible to avoid these problems. Would they be using some sort of other equipment that would help in this - does it go through mixing desks etc?
Leslie Knox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2010, 08:08 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: LOWESTOFT - UK
Posts: 2,124
It certainly goes through mixing desks, but a clip on lav is pretty quiet normally - the rustling sound is only a problem when the mic itself rubs against something. Once the clip is on, and the cable fixed so it can't move over the end few inches - that is normally that. Some brands have stiffer cable that sometime rubs and then you get more of a rumble - just experiment with getting good positioning and you're away. Low frequency rumble can be eq'd out if this is a problem by a tweak at the mixer - some desks having a dedicated low cut switch on each channel.
Paul R Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2010, 10:00 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada
Posts: 86
ya you should only get clothing noise if the mic is hidden underneath clothes.
Sacha Rosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2010, 12:28 PM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 5,742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Knox View Post
I know clothes rustle when using lavalier mics is a never ending issue and has been mentioned a lot but perhaps this is a slightly different question about it.

I've watched a lot of news programmes recently and noticed the presenters and guests are always mic'd up with lavaliers but the sound is great. Considering how much they move I can't say I ever hear much -if any- cothes rustle or hand rubbing. I know these shows probably employ great sound people who position the mic well, but it really seems impossible to avoid these problems. Would they be using some sort of other equipment that would help in this - does it go through mixing desks etc?
As the others have said, the secret is in the positioning of the mic. It's placed so the mic head is out of direct contact with the clothing, with a proper strain relief loop in the cable near the mic, which is then often fastened to the fabric with gaffer's tape out of site on the inside of the shirt or jacket so moderate subject movement doesn't flex the last few inches of cable up near the mic head.
__________________
Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!
Steve House is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2010, 03:20 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 3,840
Use of the 'brodcast loop' when positioning the mic is essential.
Richard Alvarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 24th, 2010, 05:44 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sydney.
Posts: 2,569
Leslie .. given the above info you're also listening to great voices and presentation .. these days usually in a news set built with sound in mind.
Cheers.
__________________
30+ years with our own audio and visual production company and studios.
Allan Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 26th, 2010, 01:59 PM   #7
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 20
OK, thanks for the responses. Seems like a little more practice on my part is in order.
Leslie Knox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 29th, 2010, 08:27 PM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,177
Sound from local TV news programs isn't always that "great". I've heard several recently in my market (Portland, Oregon) with up-cut audio cues. And with hollow-sound "phasing" from bringing up the mic on the weather reporter over at the green-screen while the main news-reader is still speaking. It sounds like they didn't have an experienced audio person and sent some production assistant into the audio booth to mix the show. :-(
Richard Crowley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 6th, 2010, 02:05 PM   #9
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 20
I've used the techniques mentioned above and on the whole it works fine. I still get some noise from rubbing hands or clothes rustle if the person is quite animated. But on such occassions I ask them to keep stiller.

I did have a torrid time today though when interviewing a gentlemen in a fairly shiny suit. i'm not sure what material it was made of but every time he moved i got terrible rustle from his clothes. I told him to keep still but even small hand movement caused noise. I even moved the mic to the tie but that didnt help either.

I was wondering if certain materials cause more issues than others...or perhaps I'm still doing something wrong?
Leslie Knox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 6th, 2010, 03:28 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 2,070
Hi Leslie:

It doesn't sound as if there is anything you can do about it but a "shiny suit" to me says nylon or a synthetic. These always have been and always be a challenge as far as sound. When working with a wardrobe department, we always request good old cotton and wool, where possible. Silk chiffon blouses on women always cause rustling noises and generally it is best to avoid synthetic materials as they tend to be noisy. Easy on a feature where you have input on what the talent will wear, really difficult on a documentary or corporate shoot where you don't have any control over what talent will wear.

I have gone so far as to bring a pile of new men's shirts and women's blouses when shooting a lot of interviews in a single day. I always send out a wardrobe guideline sheet to the project's producer and or talent that outlines what not to wear. Besides shound issues, there are always white and light colors that blow out and cause uneven exposure, there are moire' problems with many patterns, jewelry clunking around causes sound issues, the list goes on and on. If someone shows up wearing a shiny black nylon suit with a white or red and white striped Oxford shirt or a hot pink silk chiffon blouse, it can be nice to have wardrobe choices. Another strategy I always use is to ask the interviewees to bring 2-3 choices for wardrobe. That way you at least have a fighting chance of ending up with something that will work for sound and for picture.

Dan
Dan Brockett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 09:13 AM   #11
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 20
Its been a while since I started this thread and I've been doing my best to solve the original issues and hopefully I'm getting closer. What i think I'm experiencing is not clothes rubbing the cable but rather clothes rubbing against clothing. I bought a gun mic which a number of people have suggested to me and tried to use that as a means to capture the interviews. I hoped it would be the magic bullet but in reality I would say its no better than the lav mic. I can still hear the noise from the contributors suits/clothing when they move their arms and rub their hands. This is all pretty obvious, it is a mic after-all but I still don't understand why I don't hear this on TV programs I watch.

Sorry for sounding like a scratched record but I'm tearing my hair out at this.
Leslie Knox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 10:54 AM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,384
Kind of a strange thing but you need to take some control of their wardrobe. Even if its not actors, you should come up with guidlines to send to your subjects before the shoot. Photographers do this all the time and its greatly appreciated by the subject when you make them look good. And also need to work on your lav placement technique. I like about 6" or closer from the mouth usually a collar or near the first buttoned button or on a tie or jacket lapel. Women are tougher and I ran into an issue on my last shoot as the lady had really long hair that kept covering the mic and making noise. Broadcast loop is essential.

And with the shotgun, if you are hearing their hands you're not aiming it correctly. Sounds like you may have it too far away. Think of the mic as projecting a cone. closer = smaller cone and better pick up of voice. Too far and the cone will include unwanted things. Also you may have it above their head pointed straight down which would result in extra clothes and hands sounds.
__________________
A7RII, C100, 1Dx, 5Dmk3, 70D, Kessler goodies, Adobe, Pro Tools and more!
Robert Turchick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 11:31 AM   #13
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,177
Note that selecting wardrobe appropriate for the situation is part of the job skills of a news reporter or anchor. If they are clueless about wearing noisy clothing or not knowing where to clip the microphone, they won't go very far in the business. So it is in their own best interest to learn at least the bare minimum of acceptable performance.

It is likely different with the kind of on-screen "talent" that most of us here are shooting. They are typically NOT professionals and have no experience in this area, so it is up to us to make the best of the situation.
Richard Crowley is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2010, 06:30 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bristol U.K.
Posts: 244
You sound like you are listening hard and on the right tracks.
Try and take some recordings of these moments home and listen over monitors, then a hi-fi, and then on a tv and also a laptop too
You'll be surprised how less obvious and more natural these sounds can be than they sound on headphones.
Also it depends how loud the contributor speaks.

Personally, I think it's a brave man that takes "control" of the wardrobe department. I'd make friends without making too many suggestions.
Jimmy Tuffrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #15
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bristol U.K.
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Crowley View Post
If they are clueless about wearing noisy clothing or not knowing where to clip the microphone, they won't go very far in the business.
Are you sure ?
Jimmy Tuffrey is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:31 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network