Zoom H1 handy recorder

Todd Boyle · October 18th, 2010, 06:23 PM

I recorded two audio tracks, one is a rather pedestrian midrange PA system in the basement of Elliot Bay Books in Seattle, with a typical Shure 58 or something, thru more than 100 feet of XLR cable into their amp, and thereafter, into a very simple 2 por breakout box from ART or somebody. I took my audio off the RCA jack on the breakout box, and 50 feet across the floor into a 20db simple resistor pad, into my GS500 camcorder. This unlikely chain was much quieter and picked up the audience comments with less background nose--FAR less-- than the Zoom H1 sitting on a chair at the front of the room aiming at the audience.

The problem is not the sensitivity of the Zoom H1. The problm is the noise floor was ungodly, just massivley greater than the camcorder soundtrack

Todd

Lynne Whelden · October 18th, 2010, 07:21 PM

After recording hours of natural sound with my H2, I'm ending up having to buy sound from on-line sources for the same reason you stated, too much noise.

Chris Barcellos · October 18th, 2010, 10:18 PM

Budget has always been my issue, too. I use an Eng44 mixer and feed a Tascam DR07 that is velcroed to the 44 with a short lineout plug. I bought the H1 to do the same, and though I have had it for a week, I haven't tested it yet.

Richard D. George · October 19th, 2010, 04:48 PM

Dan Brockett:

What about an Oade modified Marantz 661 as the "least of the evils" if one is not buying an SD 700-series recorder? I have an SD 302 mixer, and am close to buying an Oade modified Marantz 661, and would greatly appreciate your thoughts.

This thread has gone slightly off the original topic, but that was not my doing.

Rick Reineke · October 21st, 2010, 11:20 AM

If you are going 'line level' from the 302 to the Marantz , Why spend extra money on the mods to the 661? I am not saying that the Oade mod is not worth while, but this has no affect on the A/D converters
'PS-- I had a 660 for five years or so.. operated flawlessly.

Richard D. George · October 21st, 2010, 10:05 PM

I won't always be using the SD 302.

Prech Marton · April 5th, 2011, 02:26 PM

The Line in of the H1 is line in AND mic in?
It detect the source type automatically?

I want to use to connect the mixer output of a music band,
and sometimes to plug in a wired mic.
Will both work? (what about phantom powered mic?)

thanks

Greg Miller · April 5th, 2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prech Marton

The Line in of the H1 is line in AND mic in?
It detect the source type automatically?

Interesting question. I don't have an H1 so I tried looking in the online "manual." Quite a disappointment, as the link to "user manual" actually downloads a 2-page "quick start guide" which has no technical information whatsoever. No info about the input impedance, appropriate input level, how to switch from mic to line, how to turn on/off the "plug in power"; no response curve for the low-cut filter, etc. etc.

Has anyone found an actual useful "user manual" online, other than the 2,215 kB "E_H1.pdf" which is the user guide?

Jim Greene · April 5th, 2011, 04:17 PM

Input impedance: 2kΩ (Input level: 0 to -39dBm)
According to this page: H1 Handy Recorder

Greg Miller · April 5th, 2011, 07:09 PM

Jim, thanks for digging up that info.

That is an interesting spec. We usually think of 0 dBm as = 0.775 Vrms, but that's really true only at 600 ohms. If they really spec it at 2,000 ohms, then 0 dBm would actually be 1.414 Vrms. But I'll bet they mean 0.775.

Even so, what do they mean by that range (0 to -39 dBm)? Is that the range of voltage that will produce 0 dBfs on the recording? If 0.775 Vrms produces 0 dBfs, that's reasonable sensitivity for a line input. But what about the mic input?

If they're saying that the minimum input you need (to produce 0 dBfs) is -39 dBm, that is 8.7 mVrms (assuming the 600 ohm standard).

Let's just pull a mic out of the hat... shall I pick an AT-897? That has an output of 10 mV at 1 Pa SPL. But 1 Pa is pretty loud, ~~ 94 dB SPL. As I recall, typical conversation is considered to be around 60 to 65 dB SPL, so let's call it 64 dB SPL. That's 30 dB lower than 1 Pa. With typical conversation, that mic would have an output -30 dB lower than 10 mV... in other words 0.316 mVrms. That's a lot lower than the 8.7 mV that the spec seems to be calling for. Not much gain in that scenario.

So what do they really mean by that quoted range (0 to -39 dBm)? And do they mean that there is not any way to switch that input jack from "mic" to "line" function?

Who has used one of these babies? Is there a mic/line function switch somewhere, perhaps in a menu? And what is the sensitivity really like?

Prech Marton · April 5th, 2011, 11:11 PM

There is no menu at all...

Greg Miller · April 6th, 2011, 06:24 AM

No menu? You mean they've made it user-friendly? HERESY!

October 18th, 2010, 06:23 PM	#16
Todd Boyle Tourist Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: kirkland wa Posts: 1	First impressions of H1 I recorded two audio tracks, one is a rather pedestrian midrange PA system in the basement of Elliot Bay Books in Seattle, with a typical Shure 58 or something, thru more than 100 feet of XLR cable into their amp, and thereafter, into a very simple 2 por breakout box from ART or somebody. I took my audio off the RCA jack on the breakout box, and 50 feet across the floor into a 20db simple resistor pad, into my GS500 camcorder. This unlikely chain was much quieter and picked up the audience comments with less background nose--FAR less-- than the Zoom H1 sitting on a chair at the front of the room aiming at the audience. The problem is not the sensitivity of the Zoom H1. The problm is the noise floor was ungodly, just massivley greater than the camcorder soundtrack Todd

October 18th, 2010, 10:18 PM	#18
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Bu Budget has always been my issue, too. I use an Eng44 mixer and feed a Tascam DR07 that is velcroed to the 44 with a short lineout plug. I bought the H1 to do the same, and though I have had it for a week, I haven't tested it yet. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

April 5th, 2011, 02:26 PM	#22
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	Re: Zoom H1 handy recorder The Line in of the H1 is line in AND mic in? It detect the source type automatically? I want to use to connect the mixer output of a music band, and sometimes to plug in a wired mic. Will both work? (what about phantom powered mic?) thanks __________________ Relaxing clips with waterfalls and music, 3D photos, 3D videos: www.3d-video.hu

April 5th, 2011, 04:17 PM	#24
Jim Greene Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 74	Re: Zoom H1 handy recorder Input impedance: 2kΩ (Input level: 0 to -39dBm) According to this page: H1 Handy Recorder

April 5th, 2011, 07:09 PM	#25
Greg Miller Trustee Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,786	Re: Zoom H1 handy recorder Jim, thanks for digging up that info. That is an interesting spec. We usually think of 0 dBm as = 0.775 Vrms, but that's really true only at 600 ohms. If they really spec it at 2,000 ohms, then 0 dBm would actually be 1.414 Vrms. But I'll bet they mean 0.775. Even so, what do they mean by that range (0 to -39 dBm)? Is that the range of voltage that will produce 0 dBfs on the recording? If 0.775 Vrms produces 0 dBfs, that's reasonable sensitivity for a line input. But what about the mic input? If they're saying that the minimum input you need (to produce 0 dBfs) is -39 dBm, that is 8.7 mVrms (assuming the 600 ohm standard). Let's just pull a mic out of the hat... shall I pick an AT-897? That has an output of 10 mV at 1 Pa SPL. But 1 Pa is pretty loud, ~~ 94 dB SPL. As I recall, typical conversation is considered to be around 60 to 65 dB SPL, so let's call it 64 dB SPL. That's 30 dB lower than 1 Pa. With typical conversation, that mic would have an output -30 dB lower than 10 mV... in other words 0.316 mVrms. That's a lot lower than the 8.7 mV that the spec seems to be calling for. Not much gain in that scenario. So what do they really mean by that quoted range (0 to -39 dBm)? And do they mean that there is not any way to switch that input jack from "mic" to "line" function? Who has used one of these babies? Is there a mic/line function switch somewhere, perhaps in a menu? And what is the sensitivity really like?

October 18th, 2010, 07:21 PM	#17
Lynne Whelden Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: williamsport, pa Posts: 604	After recording hours of natural sound with my H2, I'm ending up having to buy sound from on-line sources for the same reason you stated, too much noise.

October 19th, 2010, 04:48 PM	#19
Richard D. George Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 351	Dan Brockett: What about an Oade modified Marantz 661 as the "least of the evils" if one is not buying an SD 700-series recorder? I have an SD 302 mixer, and am close to buying an Oade modified Marantz 661, and would greatly appreciate your thoughts. This thread has gone slightly off the original topic, but that was not my doing.

October 21st, 2010, 11:20 AM	#20
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,038	If you are going 'line level' from the 302 to the Marantz , Why spend extra money on the mods to the 661? I am not saying that the Oade mod is not worth while, but this has no affect on the A/D converters 'PS-- I had a 660 for five years or so.. operated flawlessly.

October 21st, 2010, 10:05 PM	#21
Richard D. George Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 351	I won't always be using the SD 302.

April 5th, 2011, 11:11 PM	#26
Prech Marton Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: hungary Posts: 462	Re: Zoom H1 handy recorder There is no menu at all... __________________ Relaxing clips with waterfalls and music, 3D photos, 3D videos: www.3d-video.hu

April 6th, 2011, 06:24 AM	#27
Greg Miller Trustee Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,786	Re: Zoom H1 handy recorder No menu? You mean they've made it user-friendly? HERESY!