Shooting with a beachtek/juicedlink vs shooting with an zoom/tascam at DVinfo.net

Eduardo Romero · February 3rd, 2011, 01:59 AM

What are the pros and cons of each, what should I know before buying one, I intend on shooting a feature length film with both indoors and outdoors shots, I want the lowest amount of hums or buzzing, and I want to use phantom power, thank in advance

Steve House · February 3rd, 2011, 03:56 AM

You're comparing apples and oranges. Beachteks and Juicelinkeds are XLR to 1/8 mic adapters, some with phantom power. Zooms and Tascams are digital recorders. Totally different devices uised for totally different purposes. If you're planning to record in-camera, single-system sound, and you want to use pro level balanced mics, you need an adapter. If you want to record separately, double-system sound, you need a recorder. So your real questioh boils down to single system versus double system and for that we need more information, such as what camera are you shooting with, what type of material are you shooting and under what situation?

Jay Massengill · February 3rd, 2011, 12:39 PM

There is the added wrinkle that some people are using an external recorder as both recorder AND adapter, hooking the output of the recorder to a dSLR for the in-camera audio track.

Eduardo Romero · February 3rd, 2011, 06:12 PM

Im shooting on a NEX VG10 and the film is mostly dailogue driven

Steve House · February 4th, 2011, 06:01 AM

You do have a 1/8" stereo mic input on the camera so if you want to record internally and use pro XLR mics, you need the adapter. I favor the Juicedlink myself between the two you mentioned. Most camcorders have pretty crappy audio preamps and recording circuits so the prevailing opinion is to shoot double system sound and record to an external recorder. Your call.

Andrew Dean · February 4th, 2011, 04:30 PM

Shooting double sound (external recorder) has the distinct advantage that its enough of a job to wrangle the audio you are more likely to assign somebody to just do sound. Having a dedicated sound guy is almost always superior to the "ok, we're ready to roll... oh yeah, somebody grab the boom pole" scenario.

I'd recommend a separate recorder *and* a basic mic into the main camera. That way you don't need to "slate", you just need to call out the audio track number and clap (out of frame is fine) in order to have a reliable sync point and cue on the camera.

Anthony Ching · February 5th, 2011, 02:11 AM

Shoot with a digital audio recorder and output the audio to your camera. For example:
Mic >> Tascam DR100/Zoom H4n >> line out to mic level adapter cable >> VG10

Beachtek/Juicelink: XLR adapter + phantom power

Tascam DR-100/Zoom H4n: XLR adapter + phantom power + digital recorder (and maybe even cheaper.)

Steve House · February 5th, 2011, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Dean

..
I'd recommend a separate recorder *and* a basic mic into the main camera. That way you don't need to "slate", you just need to call out the audio track number and clap (out of frame is fine) in order to have a reliable sync point and cue on the camera.

You still should slate each take when possible in order to establish both a visual sync identification point and visual scene identification information. I realize you have a sync point in the scratch audio track when you record a clap but redundency is a good thing. What happens if you accidently pull that little wimpy little 1/8 plug part-way out of the camera, just far enough to break the connection, as you start to roll?

Brian P. Reynolds · February 5th, 2011, 06:56 AM

The current trend in shooting on DSLR cameras or lower cost video cameras is to record split system with a Zoom H4n or similar and use a program "DualEyes" or "PluralEyes" to sync them together in post production.
No need for slating or clapperboards, apparently easy to use (so an editor told me) it also works well syncing multiple cameras on a shoot, but they MUST have some atmos audio recorded (camera top mic is fine) on the video camera. The audio recorder can virtually free run on record, no need to stop and start to match the takes on the camera.

Singular Software - DualEyes
Singular Software - PluralEyes

I am now doing some prep work on a shoot with 2 cameras and 3 boom poles [with a Zoom H4n recorder mounted on each pole] this method eliminates a sound mixer, cart and some radio mic usage. It will all be reconstructed in Post Prod.
I have also used the Zoom H4n as a 4 track recorder [recording 4 discreet items] using a beachtek feeding split signals into the 3.5mm input on the back.

Steve House · February 5th, 2011, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian P. Reynolds

The current trend in shooting on DSLR cameras or lower cost video cameras is to record split system with a Zoom H4n or similar and use a program "DualEyes" or "PluralEyes" to sync them together in post production....

It may well be a curent trend but there's also a trend to broadcast a whale of a lot of material that is actually out of sync by fractions to a few frames. I see examples on the air every day where sync is close but not dead-on. I'm afraid the democratization of the media has also led to a relaxation of professional standards and an increased acceptance of sloppy workmanship as good enough. It's most often seen in things like local commercials, etc, but sadly it's also creeping into syndicated and even network programming as well.

Brian P. Reynolds · February 5th, 2011, 05:01 PM

I will have to agree with you Steve about audio out of sync... BUT the errors are occurring in the transmission path rather than in production. And the errors are of the worst type audio-pre video rather than audio-post video.

This happens when the video is processed and a slight delay is caused in relation to the audio. The more video computer trickery done the greater the latency.

Then there is the home TV sets themselves, go to any electrical retailer and watch the wall of TVs and watch the delays from brand to brand, screen to screen at times up to 2 seconds difference.
In Australia a TV network has expanded their news coverage recently and are using a "Centralized Control Room" meaning that 3-4 discreet camera feeds + discreet mics signals are being sent 1000km+ then switched in the control room with video items and graphics then sent back to that city for transmission often a delay of 4 seconds have occurred.

Digital Radio is now experiencing similar problems with delays and live broadcasting of sporting events.

February 3rd, 2011, 01:59 AM	#1
Eduardo Romero Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 28	Shooting with a beachtek/juicedlink vs shooting with an zoom/tascam What are the pros and cons of each, what should I know before buying one, I intend on shooting a feature length film with both indoors and outdoors shots, I want the lowest amount of hums or buzzing, and I want to use phantom power, thank in advance

February 3rd, 2011, 03:56 AM	#2
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	You're comparing apples and oranges. Beachteks and Juicelinkeds are XLR to 1/8 mic adapters, some with phantom power. Zooms and Tascams are digital recorders. Totally different devices uised for totally different purposes. If you're planning to record in-camera, single-system sound, and you want to use pro level balanced mics, you need an adapter. If you want to record separately, double-system sound, you need a recorder. So your real questioh boils down to single system versus double system and for that we need more information, such as what camera are you shooting with, what type of material are you shooting and under what situation? __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

February 3rd, 2011, 12:39 PM	#3
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	There is the added wrinkle that some people are using an external recorder as both recorder AND adapter, hooking the output of the recorder to a dSLR for the in-camera audio track. Last edited by Jay Massengill; February 4th, 2011 at 09:57 AM.

February 4th, 2011, 06:01 AM	#5
Steve House Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada Posts: 5,742	You do have a 1/8" stereo mic input on the camera so if you want to record internally and use pro XLR mics, you need the adapter. I favor the Juicedlink myself between the two you mentioned. Most camcorders have pretty crappy audio preamps and recording circuits so the prevailing opinion is to shoot double system sound and record to an external recorder. Your call. __________________ Good news, Cousins! This week's chocolate ration is 15 grams!

February 5th, 2011, 02:11 AM	#7
Anthony Ching Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Taipei Posts: 63	Shoot with a digital audio recorder and output the audio to your camera. For example: Mic >> Tascam DR100/Zoom H4n >> line out to mic level adapter cable >> VG10 Beachtek/Juicelink: XLR adapter + phantom power Tascam DR-100/Zoom H4n: XLR adapter + phantom power + digital recorder (and maybe even cheaper.) __________________ Got 3 'S': Schoeps, Sound Devices, and Sony.

February 3rd, 2011, 06:12 PM	#4
Eduardo Romero Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 28	Im shooting on a NEX VG10 and the film is mostly dailogue driven

February 4th, 2011, 04:30 PM	#6
Andrew Dean Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Motukarara, New Zealand Posts: 475	Shooting double sound (external recorder) has the distinct advantage that its enough of a job to wrangle the audio you are more likely to assign somebody to just do sound. Having a dedicated sound guy is almost always superior to the "ok, we're ready to roll... oh yeah, somebody grab the boom pole" scenario. I'd recommend a separate recorder and a basic mic into the main camera. That way you don't need to "slate", you just need to call out the audio track number and clap (out of frame is fine) in order to have a reliable sync point and cue on the camera.

February 5th, 2011, 06:56 AM	#9
Brian P. Reynolds Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 466	The current trend in shooting on DSLR cameras or lower cost video cameras is to record split system with a Zoom H4n or similar and use a program "DualEyes" or "PluralEyes" to sync them together in post production. No need for slating or clapperboards, apparently easy to use (so an editor told me) it also works well syncing multiple cameras on a shoot, but they MUST have some atmos audio recorded (camera top mic is fine) on the video camera. The audio recorder can virtually free run on record, no need to stop and start to match the takes on the camera. Singular Software - DualEyes Singular Software - PluralEyes I am now doing some prep work on a shoot with 2 cameras and 3 boom poles [with a Zoom H4n recorder mounted on each pole] this method eliminates a sound mixer, cart and some radio mic usage. It will all be reconstructed in Post Prod. I have also used the Zoom H4n as a 4 track recorder [recording 4 discreet items] using a beachtek feeding split signals into the 3.5mm input on the back.

February 5th, 2011, 05:01 PM	#11
Brian P. Reynolds Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Adelaide, South Australia Posts: 466	I will have to agree with you Steve about audio out of sync... BUT the errors are occurring in the transmission path rather than in production. And the errors are of the worst type audio-pre video rather than audio-post video. This happens when the video is processed and a slight delay is caused in relation to the audio. The more video computer trickery done the greater the latency. Then there is the home TV sets themselves, go to any electrical retailer and watch the wall of TVs and watch the delays from brand to brand, screen to screen at times up to 2 seconds difference. In Australia a TV network has expanded their news coverage recently and are using a "Centralized Control Room" meaning that 3-4 discreet camera feeds + discreet mics signals are being sent 1000km+ then switched in the control room with video items and graphics then sent back to that city for transmission often a delay of 4 seconds have occurred. Digital Radio is now experiencing similar problems with delays and live broadcasting of sporting events.