Buying MKH 416
 

I'm currently on the lookout for a mkh 416 for a web series (drama)

I need to buy one soon, and I've found a few on ebay that are used and I think a decent price $550.00

But they appears to be atleast 30 years old. Can I expect problems. Is it worth it then?

With or without blimp and suspension, is the mic powering T or 48v phantom?
XLR connector or Tuchel?
They are a reliable mic hence the popularity, but depending on the exact configuration the price will vary quite a bit.

Just the mic. T-power. Tuchel.

Just a general question. This mic was probably made about 30 years ago. Can it still possibly be worth buying it?

Firstly a 30yo 416 would still be OK, BUT do you have a mixer that will run the "T" powering?
"T" powering is VASTLY different from phantom powering, you can get a P48v to 12vT adaptor but they just don't sound quite the same. [subtle differences]
If it has a Tuchel connector I wouldn't touch it... to much trouble to get the connectors and if you find some you will have a NON standard mic in your system.

If you have a mixer that delivers "T" power and can use it's worth $150-200 tops


I have prevoiusly bought on eBay an 816 "T" (XLR) with Rycote blimp and suspension for $320.. great price but I have mixers that will run T powering.

I was planning on using the pcs converter into my h4n recorder

The mic comes with the tuchel xlr adapter.

But it sounds like it's not really worth it at $500.

Problem is I'm going into principle photography soon, and I need to invest some money into a decent mic. It's made for youtube web series, so I don't exactly know if I need top of the line stuff, but I can't get by with the rode videomic anymore.

Are there any mics you could recommend I look into. I'm not married to the 416, but if the tuchel setup could potentially sound better than a new 500 dollar k6, wouldn't it be worth it?

Thanks for all the help.

The 416 and rode videomic are at opposite ends of the mic list, but there are many mics in between like the Sennheiser ME66 K6, Rode NTG2 [Battery/ phantom] or NTG3( [Phantom only] a very similar mic to the 416). Audio Technica also produce some as well.
As I mentioned "T" powered mics are now becoming an odd thing to have around and I wouldn't go down that path just to get a cheaper mic.
Is it possible to hire or borrow a mic to do the shoot? Give several mics a try to see what you like best.

If I were in your position and had the ability to provide 48v I'd give a serious look at the Rode NTG3. While there are better mics out there, none in it's price range can touch it IMHO. If you're willing to spend more and go up to the next level there are quite a few other mics to consider. In addition to my Sanken I've also got a ME66/K6 that I use in battle conditions. One thing that is nice about the Senn equipment is that they are built like tanks.

But for the $500 plus minus range, take a listen to the NTG3 for pure sound quality.

-Garrett

Lee it's interesting to see the difference in the replies to your post here and on the pro audio board where you posted the same question. The pro audio guys and all say it's still going to be a great sounding mic and the T-power and Tuchel aren't really an issue. Having done pro sound for many years I'm in their camp.

You have probably found these 416 mics on ebay, some are T powering some are phantom, probably better value than a 30yo Tuchel version.

Sennheiser MKH 416 T Boom Mic - eBay (item 330530141977 end time Feb-19-11 08:51:41 PST)

Sennheiser MKH416 P48 (MINT) - eBay (item 270706929936 end time Feb-20-11 06:51:32 PST)

Sennheiser MKH 416- P48 3U - eBay (item 200575040346 end time Feb-17-11 06:58:19 PST)

Lee, just a quick question, is your web series going to be mostly interior or exterior shots?

-Garrett

Those are some of the mics I was looking at.

There's definitely a divide between the two different forums. Making this decision very difficult.

I'm still considering the ntg-3. But you can't get it used, and at $650 new, why get an inferior mic?

It's not possible to borrow, and if I'm renting, I might as well be buying. The prices in Toronto are ridiculous.

Mostly interior, but some exterior. I'd say 70:30. But I need a mic that can handle both.

What is the other forum?
Do you regard yourself as a professional audio person or someone new to the industry?

I would agree, the 30yr. old T-Pwr. 416 is overpriced.
Whatever mic you get, consider appropriate wind protection in your budget for the exteriors.

Unfortunately shotguns don't generally work well inside if the room is very live. The 416's low end characteristics make it a bit more sensitive to reflected low. It's not horrible but compared some other mics it is noticeable. The 416's are pretty much built to take anything though so they are standard equipment for a lot of people.

-Garrett

I like to think that 416s are a little like Bose PA loudspeakers. Everyone loves them, or hates them. Nobody floats in between.

The only real answer on this is to try one out, actually, try a few different ones and see which one you like the sound of.

See if you can borrow or even just hire a couple for a day - maybe a 416 and the Rode. Wire them up to your kit with the cables randomly plugged into left and right - record the kind of thing you will be using them for, and then let your ears decide. Then follow the cable and buy one of those!

I really hate the notion of choosing a microphone just because people tell you X is better than Y. You have your own ears, and maybe your opinion is better.

One point on old mics. I have a mic here that I bought in my teens in the 70s. I bought the same model last month. They sound different. Not bad, different - just not the same. The older one is not quite so bright. On it's own it is ok - but you wouldn't want to use them as a matched pair.

The same applies to the sound from an old 416. It's still a 416, but is it as good as a new something else?

I have no problems with people recommending their favourites, but microphones are tools, and the 416 is not the be all and end all of shotgun mics - but it IS a known, tested and reliable constant. Given a choice between a 416 all naked, and maybe a cheaper one with useful accessories, I'd do the cheap one every time and have a full kit!

The other forum is gearslutz. I'm just a filmmaker trying to get decent sound for my project. Right now I'm shooting on the videomic, and I'd like an upgrade. I've read a lot of forums where people first buy the k6 and then switch to the 416. I thought I might skip that step.

Question about used MKH 416 - Gearslutz.com

It seems like the wind cover is very important though, so I'm at a crossroad. Ideally I'd like to pay about $550 and have all my bases covered, but that just doesn't seem possible.

SENNHEISER MKH416 SHOTGUN CONDENSER MICROPHONE+XLR CABL on eBay.ca (item 220734241510 end time 05-Mar-11 08:53:39 EST)

This is the mic I was looking at. I'm in Canada.

Lee, unfortunately $550 to get a complete kit is going to be a bit tight. About the cheapest good wind protection I would recommend is the Rode Blimp at about $300. Rycote's kit is a little better but costs about twice as much. Then you'll also need to get a boompole if you don't already have one and proper cables.

As was previously mentioned, you're better off getting a less expensive mic and the proper accessories. Also, keep in mind that getting good sound is about proper mic technique. You'd be surprised that you can get very good results even with your Videomic.

-Garrett

$300!!! For a piece of plastic. That's almost as expensive as the mic.

I was planning on DIYing a boom pole and zeppelin. I'm pretty handy, and I don't mind not looking professional so long as the sound quality is there.

But, now I'm thinking the 416 might be too sensitive for anything diy...

Trew Audio has an extensive selection of used gear as well as an operation in Canada. It's another source you could check for dependable items.

Quote: $300!!! For a piece of plastic. That's almost as expensive as the mic.

Well, compared to the price of diamonds (just rocks after all) sounds pretty reasonable. (Joke!!!)

Plastic is cheap (ish) but making molds for plastic is extremely expensive - I've seen molds for smallish parts run over half a million dollars each. Size and precision (and type of plastic) drives the price up because larger molds require larger molding machines, and getting plastic to flow evenly through a mold with lots of features, holes, etc can require heated molds and sometimes even vacuum assist. I've seen some complex molds where we had to have the plastic injected from several points, and then we ran into issues where the multiple flows met at lower than optimal temperatures and we had parts eventually breaking apart from molding stresses and insufficient mixing. It's a black art!!! Cheaply molded parts can warp or crack over time.

I remember a rather famous PC maker once having to recall 5 million keyboards because of warpage caused by poor molding and/or incorrect plastic resin.

So it comes down to the size of the market - plastic parts that sell in the millions are cheap, the same kind of part that sells a few thousand can be very very expensive.

Of course, "brand value" can be a big part of it as well. Anyone for a Tiffany blimp???