Zoom H4 and mic at DVinfo.net

Lalo Alvidrez · March 25th, 2011, 01:45 PM

I am in the market for a mic to tie into my zoom h4. I will be shooting a lawyer interview with my canon 7d and will have the zoom h4 for the audio capture. What would be an ideal mic?

Rick Reineke · March 26th, 2011, 09:13 AM

A decent quality omni-directional lavaliere hardwired to a XLR transformer/power module is a good place to start.
Specific makes and models is dependent on your budget , as would be alternate usage factors. Possibly an additional hyper-cardioid and shotgun mic for a boom or 'on camera' rig.

Lalo Alvidrez · March 27th, 2011, 02:23 PM

A lavaliere mic is not what i want because it's promo video for a web site. thinking more along the lines of a boom mic.

Bill Davis · March 27th, 2011, 03:45 PM

The "type" of video is largely irrelevant. What matters is the type of RESULTS you want.

The primary purpose of a boom mic is to record a voice IN THE CONTEXT of the natural sounds of the surrounding environment. If those environmental sounds are pleasing, if they're congruent with the location and look of what the audience is seeing - then a boom approach is great.

HOWEVER. If the location presents ANY sound issues - including, but CERTAINLY not limited to, HVAC noise, wind, RF interference, other people talking that you DO NOT wish to record, or even the spacial characteristics of the space itself (boomy, echos, splashy sound reflections from hard surfaces, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc) then a LAV placed properly will ISOLATE the sound of the person speaking from those unwanted sounds and create a MUCH more pleasing recording. Especially since you can always record "room tone" separately (even with the same lav!) and MIX the two together to create the proper sound balance in post.

With a boom approach - that's IT. You're stuck with the mix of sounds that reach the boom mic. Period. When it's great - it's great. When it's less than great - there's seldom anything you can do to make it any better.

This is precisely even in Hollywood, where budgets are not an issue, most dialog is recorded with BOTH boom AND lav. The two approaches help make sure that there's always the cleanest possible track available in order to make the sound track shine.

FWIW.

Jim Andrada · March 27th, 2011, 11:32 PM

Hi Lalo - Are you concerned about a lav because it might show in the video - if not, what is the problem with a lav? I agree 200% with Bill.

Lalo Alvidrez · March 28th, 2011, 04:12 PM

Bill thank you so much for the insight and yes the reason for boom mic or other solution is because with the lav I don't want it showing up on the video.

Andy Balla · March 28th, 2011, 04:53 PM

I'm going to be testing out a Zoom H4n with a Rode NTG3 in the next week or two. I don't know when your shoot is, but if I get testing done before your shoot, I'd be happy to make a report about the setup.

Jim Andrada · March 28th, 2011, 07:35 PM

Hi Lalo

There are a couple of excellent lavs that are so small you can hide them in a buttonhole or even in someone's hair - Countryman B6 for example (and they come in colors). I have one and it works very well, although I don't usually have to worry about hiding it. Being an omni it isn't too sensitive to position so it makes it easier to place "creatively"

B6 Omni .1" Diameter Lavalier - Countryman Associates, Inc.

Jay Massengill · March 29th, 2011, 07:20 AM

And the excellent, less expensive Countryman B3 is still very small and hardly noticeable.

Jim Andrada · March 29th, 2011, 10:32 AM

Good point Jay - the B3 is about $100 cheaper than the B6. If you can't hide one of these two mics you aren't trying hard enough!

Lalo Alvidrez · April 2nd, 2011, 09:11 AM

Andy that would be great. Won't be shooting for another few weeks at least. Jim I'll take a look at the lavs you recommended and see if they fit my need. Appreciate the info.

Andy Balla · April 2nd, 2011, 09:41 AM

The NTG 3 is supposed to be here on Monday. I'm sure I'll be plugging it in and checking it out as soon as I tear open the package! I'll let you know when I get some stuff together. How would I post clips on this site? Or should I just post them elsewhere and link to that?

Andy Balla · April 4th, 2011, 05:41 PM

I got the NTG 3 today as expected (sounds great, I can understand the comparisons to the MKH416 now). I also got a Manfrotto Super Clamp to attach my Zoom H4n to my boom pole. Makes for a nice little self-contained setup. I haven't done any recordings yet, but maybe later tonight or tomorrow, when my resident voice talent is here. In the meantime I'll see if I can figure out how to post a pic of the setup...

Andy Balla · April 4th, 2011, 05:58 PM

Here's a link to the Zoom on the boom, with the NTG 3...
newmicsetup001.jpg picture by audioboyscout - Photobucket

Andy Balla · April 5th, 2011, 12:13 AM

I've got some quick recordings of my housemate in the kitchen, one with an AT815b into the Zoom H4n, and another with the brand new Rode NTG3 into the same Zoom. Recorded in the same room, same settings on the Zoom. Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until tomorrow to post a link. Off the bat, I notice that the AT815b sounds hollow, and a bit weak, with a pretty pronounced high-end "spitty" kind of sound. In contrast, the Rode NTG3 sounds much fuller and warmer. The consonant sounds come through without being over emphasized.
Overall, there's really no contest here. The NTG3 was well worth the money, to me. I'll keep the AT as a backup mic, but I doubt it will see much use anymore. Might use it in a situation where the mic might be in danger of damage.I long to hear what the very top of the shotguns sound like compared to the Rode. If this mic sounds this good, I can't imagine how good something like a Shoepps or Neumann shotgun sounds. I'll post a link to clips tomorrow, when I'm not so tired!

March 25th, 2011, 01:45 PM	#1
Lalo Alvidrez Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Longview, Tx. Posts: 227	Zoom H4 and mic I am in the market for a mic to tie into my zoom h4. I will be shooting a lawyer interview with my canon 7d and will have the zoom h4 for the audio capture. What would be an ideal mic?

March 26th, 2011, 09:13 AM	#2
Rick Reineke Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Posts: 2,038	Re: Zoom H4 and mic A decent quality omni-directional lavaliere hardwired to a XLR transformer/power module is a good place to start. Specific makes and models is dependent on your budget , as would be alternate usage factors. Possibly an additional hyper-cardioid and shotgun mic for a boom or 'on camera' rig.

March 27th, 2011, 02:23 PM	#3
Lalo Alvidrez Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Longview, Tx. Posts: 227	Re: Zoom H4 and mic A lavaliere mic is not what i want because it's promo video for a web site. thinking more along the lines of a boom mic.

March 27th, 2011, 03:45 PM	#4
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Re: Zoom H4 and mic The "type" of video is largely irrelevant. What matters is the type of RESULTS you want. The primary purpose of a boom mic is to record a voice IN THE CONTEXT of the natural sounds of the surrounding environment. If those environmental sounds are pleasing, if they're congruent with the location and look of what the audience is seeing - then a boom approach is great. HOWEVER. If the location presents ANY sound issues - including, but CERTAINLY not limited to, HVAC noise, wind, RF interference, other people talking that you DO NOT wish to record, or even the spacial characteristics of the space itself (boomy, echos, splashy sound reflections from hard surfaces, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc) then a LAV placed properly will ISOLATE the sound of the person speaking from those unwanted sounds and create a MUCH more pleasing recording. Especially since you can always record "room tone" separately (even with the same lav!) and MIX the two together to create the proper sound balance in post. With a boom approach - that's IT. You're stuck with the mix of sounds that reach the boom mic. Period. When it's great - it's great. When it's less than great - there's seldom anything you can do to make it any better. This is precisely even in Hollywood, where budgets are not an issue, most dialog is recorded with BOTH boom AND lav. The two approaches help make sure that there's always the cleanest possible track available in order to make the sound track shine. FWIW. __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

March 27th, 2011, 11:32 PM	#5
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Zoom H4 and mic Hi Lalo - Are you concerned about a lav because it might show in the video - if not, what is the problem with a lav? I agree 200% with Bill.

March 28th, 2011, 04:12 PM	#6
Lalo Alvidrez Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Longview, Tx. Posts: 227	Re: Zoom H4 and mic Bill thank you so much for the insight and yes the reason for boom mic or other solution is because with the lav I don't want it showing up on the video.

March 28th, 2011, 04:53 PM	#7
Andy Balla Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 182	Re: Zoom H4 and mic I'm going to be testing out a Zoom H4n with a Rode NTG3 in the next week or two. I don't know when your shoot is, but if I get testing done before your shoot, I'd be happy to make a report about the setup.

March 28th, 2011, 07:35 PM	#8
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Zoom H4 and mic Hi Lalo There are a couple of excellent lavs that are so small you can hide them in a buttonhole or even in someone's hair - Countryman B6 for example (and they come in colors). I have one and it works very well, although I don't usually have to worry about hiding it. Being an omni it isn't too sensitive to position so it makes it easier to place "creatively" B6 Omni .1" Diameter Lavalier - Countryman Associates, Inc.

March 29th, 2011, 07:20 AM	#9
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Re: Zoom H4 and mic And the excellent, less expensive Countryman B3 is still very small and hardly noticeable.

March 29th, 2011, 10:32 AM	#10
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Zoom H4 and mic Good point Jay - the B3 is about $100 cheaper than the B6. If you can't hide one of these two mics you aren't trying hard enough!

April 2nd, 2011, 09:11 AM	#11
Lalo Alvidrez Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Longview, Tx. Posts: 227	Re: Zoom H4 and mic Andy that would be great. Won't be shooting for another few weeks at least. Jim I'll take a look at the lavs you recommended and see if they fit my need. Appreciate the info.

April 2nd, 2011, 09:41 AM	#12
Andy Balla Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 182	Re: Zoom H4 and mic The NTG 3 is supposed to be here on Monday. I'm sure I'll be plugging it in and checking it out as soon as I tear open the package! I'll let you know when I get some stuff together. How would I post clips on this site? Or should I just post them elsewhere and link to that?

April 4th, 2011, 05:41 PM	#13
Andy Balla Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 182	Re: Zoom H4 and mic I got the NTG 3 today as expected (sounds great, I can understand the comparisons to the MKH416 now). I also got a Manfrotto Super Clamp to attach my Zoom H4n to my boom pole. Makes for a nice little self-contained setup. I haven't done any recordings yet, but maybe later tonight or tomorrow, when my resident voice talent is here. In the meantime I'll see if I can figure out how to post a pic of the setup...

April 4th, 2011, 05:58 PM	#14
Andy Balla Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 182	Re: Zoom H4 and mic Here's a link to the Zoom on the boom, with the NTG 3... newmicsetup001.jpg picture by audioboyscout - Photobucket

April 5th, 2011, 12:13 AM	#15
Andy Balla Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Asheville NC Posts: 182	Re: Zoom H4 and mic I've got some quick recordings of my housemate in the kitchen, one with an AT815b into the Zoom H4n, and another with the brand new Rode NTG3 into the same Zoom. Recorded in the same room, same settings on the Zoom. Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until tomorrow to post a link. Off the bat, I notice that the AT815b sounds hollow, and a bit weak, with a pretty pronounced high-end "spitty" kind of sound. In contrast, the Rode NTG3 sounds much fuller and warmer. The consonant sounds come through without being over emphasized. Overall, there's really no contest here. The NTG3 was well worth the money, to me. I'll keep the AT as a backup mic, but I doubt it will see much use anymore. Might use it in a situation where the mic might be in danger of damage.I long to hear what the very top of the shotguns sound like compared to the Rode. If this mic sounds this good, I can't imagine how good something like a Shoepps or Neumann shotgun sounds. I'll post a link to clips tomorrow, when I'm not so tired!