Cardioid Lav? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 17th, 2011, 07:00 AM   #1
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 1,259
Cardioid Lav?

I've read that cardioid lavs are not generally a good idea to use b/c they can go off axis.

But a friend of mine will be shooting on location that should pose a lot of problems for sound. The room has marble floors, a low ceiling and thin windows facing an LA street.

To minimize outside sound, he's considering shooting around 1am and covering the windows w/ some type of absorbent material (any suggestions--sound "blankets" are not very absorbent from my experience?).

He also wants to hang a similar type material in the room to cut down of reflections. I've even read about floating balloons to the ceiling to minimize reflections.

But I was thinking, in addition to some or all of this, how about using cardioid lavs? This seems like just the situation that such a mic could be beneficial.

Your thoughts? THANKS MUCH! :)
Peter Moretti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2011, 09:51 AM   #2
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Burlington
Posts: 1,862
Re: Cardioid Lav?

All other factors being equal I don't think a cardioid versus omni lav will make a positive difference in this situation.

I would try to use the best available quality omni's, mounted properly.

And definitely take all the steps possible to treat the space to cut down on acoustic reflections.

You don't specify what kind of project this is. Will the lavs be hidden? Could ear-worn mics be an option if the mics can be visible, something like the Countryman E6?

Proximity of the mic to the sound source is the primary means of decreasing the ratio of ambient sound to direct sound.

Treating the space, and avoiding other noises like traffic and air conditioning are the primary means of reducing the ambient and reflective sounds that are available for the mic to pick up.

A high-quality omni will have less coloration of what ambient sound or reflections are picked up.

If good omni's are used with clean preamps and a good recorder, and the space has been properly treated, I think that's the best you can do.

Also have some ability to record an ambient track, like with a hypercardioid or cardioid boom mic to use along with the lav tracks.
Jay Massengill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2011, 10:09 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Camas, WA, USA
Posts: 5,466
Re: Cardioid Lav?

A cardioid lav might help a bit. Just yesterday I did some tests in a mildly reflective room with an omni lav, a few cardioid mics on a fixed boom, and a super cardioid on the boom. The super sounded the best. The lav was second best, but that's partly because it's a great sounding mic. The cardioids came in last. But let's look at why...

An omni lav isn't really omni when mounted to the chest. The body blocks half of the field. The boom mics get 360 degrees of sound. And while the cardioid cuts out the sound from the rear, it doesn't trim the sides very well. The super cut off the reflection from the sides and won the competition.

But my environment had a decent carpet and ceiling. It was the glass windows and hard plain walls that made my echo. If you're dealing with reflective floors, a cardioid lav will reduce the floor reflection. The body will cut half of the wall reflections.

A good super or hyper should do best though - especially if the hot end is pointed at the talent, rather than the floor. And then you have somebody aiming it, rather than hoping that the lav is pointed in the right direction.
__________________
Jon Fairhurst
Jon Fairhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 17th, 2011, 12:32 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 42
Re: Cardioid Lav?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
I've read that cardioid lavs are not generally a good idea to use b/c they can go off axis.

But a friend of mine will be shooting on location that should pose a lot of problems for sound. The room has marble floors, a low ceiling and thin windows facing an LA street.

To minimize outside sound, he's considering shooting around 1am and covering the windows w/ some type of absorbent material (any suggestions--sound "blankets" are not very absorbent from my experience?).

He also wants to hang a similar type material in the room to cut down of reflections. I've even read about floating balloons to the ceiling to minimize reflections.

But I was thinking, in addition to some or all of this, how about using cardioid lavs? This seems like just the situation that such a mic could be beneficial.

Your thoughts? THANKS MUCH! :)
Treating the room can help for sure as has been said. Hanging sound blankets where possible, adding soft cushy furniture can also help. Would be a fun experiment to try the balloon trick.

Interesting to note Countryman's new B2D hypercardioid lav...expensive and would pose some additional difficulty with placement and clothing noise (or so I've heard with non-omni lavs).

B2D Directional Lavalier - Countryman Associates, Inc.

Dan Ostroff is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

Omega Broadcast
(512) 251-7778
Austin, TX

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

EVS
(800) 238-8480
Glendale, CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:02 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2015 The Digital Video Information Network