I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic - Page 8 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 20th, 2011, 10:22 PM   #106
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 463
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
It's still stereo, but not a natural sounding stereo.

Remember some of the Beatles recordings where the singer would be panned hard to one side and bass or guitar to the other? The effect of two shotguns would be similar to that, depending on angles, isolation, etc.

There are many ways that we can record a stereo soundfield. None is perfect. They are all approximations. Two shotguns is still stereo, but a worse approximation than most. ;)
No it's not stereo is should be regarded as "Split Tracks" people seem to think that 2 tracks of audio is stereo.... its not.
Is a shot gun on track 1 and a Lav on track 2 stereo? Many times this goes to an edit studio and its claimed to be stereo, and it actually creates far more problems than it solves..
Brian P. Reynolds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 20th, 2011, 11:16 PM   #107
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian P. Reynolds View Post
Is a shot gun on track 1 and a Lav on track 2 stereo?
If the two tracks are treated as separate tracks and mixed down (and possibly panned across a stereo stage) then no.

If the two tracks are played back simultaneously and in sync, with each track going to a separate speaker (or earphone) then I'd say yes, that's a stereo pair of tracks.

And remember, there's intensity stereo, phase stereo, a combination of the two, binaural, etc. etc. Multitracked pop music probably consists mostly of mono tracks, with the exception of the drum kit (and maybe a Leslie cab) which would probably be miced with at least a pair of mics (recorded onto at least two tracks)... but with everything eventually being mixed down to stereo.
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 21st, 2011, 01:16 AM   #108
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
Posts: 1,941
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian Alvarez View Post
After the horrible performance of this camera's microphone, I would never buy a Sony microphone. Everything I've had in my life branded Sony that was an audio product of any kind was subpar. Sony may be very good for visuals, but when it comes to audio they suck.
Well to dismiss something just because of that experience with sony shows a lack of ability to consider all options to get good results and I can add no more to this discussion, you wanted a cheap stereo mic and I have found that the sony is the best budget mic around! I have even used the ECM MS-907 for pro broadcast use and whilst I am no longer a fan of sony pro cameras after my Z7/S270 I would still consider them if I needed a solution to a future problem.
__________________
Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/

Last edited by Gary Nattrass; July 21st, 2011 at 04:04 AM.
Gary Nattrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #109
New Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Denmark
Posts: 7
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Sad to see you got a mono mic after all.

I agree with your first postings. Recording the applause in mono is a terrible sound experience.

People here argue that if you zoom, your sound will not zoom with a stereo mic. True and neither will it with a shotgun mic.Thats not the point with recording in stereo. The sound shound be as real as possible.
Yes the vocal from a single person is mono, but the person who is listening has two ears (stereo/). So if the talking person is moving the head to one side a mono shotgun will record same level or reduce the sound level.
A stereo mic will act like your ears and put a higher level to the one side and lower level to the other.
Therefore recording vocals in stereo makes meaning.

I got the AX2000 and yes sound isnt great. My Sony UX5 with 5+1 sound is 1000 times better, so I will also go for a better stereo mic.

I saw a lot of pros and cons on different mics. I think you will never find a mic that everyone says is good or perfect. The Rode NT4 is sensitive to shocks and wind. Then put a dead cat onto the mic if thats a problem. Who on earth will record outside and expect that a not protected mic wouldnt rumble?. Put the mic on a shockmount if its sensitive.

Some people believe that a shotgun will make recordings at 30 feet distance possible. No it will still record so much ambient noice that you dont want to listen to it. If you want to record on distance, then use a small mic mounted to the shirt with a transmitter. Shotguns are for interviews with less than 10 feet and lot of ambient noice, but mono isnt what your ears are ment to listen to. Even if you have a normal conversation with your wife, you will hear her voice in stereo even though the voice has mono output.

If you are to do a wedding recording, the stereo mic makes sence. Yes if not put next the bride and groom it will not record bride to right and groom to the left. But it will record the audience and the rest as your ears would hear it.

A stereo mic needs to be paired in order to make the sound, sound like stereo. If theres just a slightly delay between the two mics. your ears will feel its out of phase and sounds terrible. I can hear a lot of recordings on youtube is out of phase which destroy the whole stereo image.
A convinsing recording on the Rode NT4 is here:
Even the vocal is recorded perfect as your ear would hear it.

Another awesome recording with the Rode NT4 mic used outside:

And try listen to the recordings using headphones. Then you get the true stereo image.
The frequency range goes from 20-20.000 KHz so it will record the same as your ears are able to hear.
Yes the mic is heavy, so is the AX2000. Use a tripod or a sholder strap if things get too heavy.

I understand your price concerns. But the good thing about a good mic is. You can use it on your next camcorder as well. You could also consider to buy a used mic.

Yes a lot of broadcast stations use mono shotgun mics for their recordings and if no one is askiing for more they will probably continue like so for the next century. But mono isnt that great and your ears and brain is capable of more than mono recordings.

Dont try to setup two microphones for stereo that is build for mono use. If the distance between the two is just a bit out of tolerance, you will have the sound out of phase. Sound isnt moving very fast, so if one mic is a bit closer to the object as the other mic, you will hear something that isnt mono and isnt stereo. It will feel weird in your head.

Its not easy to make good stereo sound recordings. Using a mono shotgun is far more easy, so I guess thats why its used by broadcast TV. They are more likely to get acceptable sounds in the production and they dont have time to deal with bad recordings, so they go for the safe solutions. But not for the stunning sound.

Still I wish you all the best with your mic and your shootings. I think we all purchased what we think is best :-)
Tom Keller Christensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2012, 05:25 PM   #110
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arcata, Ca
Posts: 750
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

"Therefore recording vocals in stereo makes meaning."

• I have to say that all dialog should be recorded in MONO. This goes for weddings or anything. If you have someone playing guitar and singing, yes, a stereo mic is more appropriate to capture the guitar and voice, or a small group. But for dialog, mono is the proper way to record. A stereo recording of voice will never have the voice perfectly centered, and you don't want the dialog or singing track drifting left and right because that's disorienting to the audience. If the proper way was stereo, then recording studios, and Hollywood would have figured that out and used stereo mics. But a MONO mic is always used by professionals for vocals and dialog.
• A shotgun is not designed for recording 10 feet away. It's designed to be held within 2 feet of the mouth. It does not increase the distance you record from, it just reduces the side noise in the mid-upper range.
• For weddings you need to put a lav on the groom, and a lav on the officiant. The bride will be picked up by the groom's mic. Stereo mics are for music, and ambient recordings primarily.

I have the NT4, and it's a great mic! Indeed get a shock mount and wind protection for it.
__________________
My Work: http://www.youtube.com/ChadWork1
Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony PMW-EX1 :: FCPx :: AT4053b :: Rode NTG-3,

Last edited by Chad Johnson; October 21st, 2012 at 04:54 PM.
Chad Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2012, 04:45 PM   #111
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 463
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Keller Christensen View Post

Yes a lot of broadcast stations use mono shotgun mics for their recordings and if no one is asking for more they will probably continue like so for the next century. But mono isn't that great and your ears and brain is capable of more than mono recordings.

Don't try to setup two microphones for stereo that is build for mono use. If the distance between the two is just a bit out of tolerance, you will have the sound out of phase. Sound isn't moving very fast, so if one mic is a bit closer to the object as the other mic, you will hear something that isn't mono and isn't stereo. It will feel weird in your head.

Its not easy to make good stereo sound recordings. Using a mono shotgun is far more easy, so I guess that's why its used by broadcast TV. They are more likely to get acceptable sounds in the production and they don't have time to deal with bad recordings, so they go for the safe solutions. But not for the stunning sound.

Still I wish you all the best with your mic and your shootings. I think we all purchased what we think is best :-)
Sorry Tom, but you seem to have VERY little knowledge of Television Production and the use of shotgun mics...Yes they are mono but are used to 'paint' an audio picture some are panned left and some right and many variations in between making that complete audio picture.
Just think of a soccer field 10-12 mono shot gun mics are normally used just for field FX, mainly to suit the wide shot camera.
If it was to be mic'd with 12 stereo shotgun mics with each L channel going to Left and each R channel going to the Right what you would end up with is a total mix mash of sounds with NO definition or coherence.
TV broadcasts very rarely if not ever use a single FX mic on its own.

PLEASE do more research on broadcasting techniques before making wild statements...... Or even ask on the forum of how its done as there are many people on forums with MANY years of experience willing to share.
Brian P. Reynolds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 21st, 2012, 04:53 PM   #112
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arcata, Ca
Posts: 750
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Yes, if one doesn't know something from actual experience, they shouldn't be handing out advice.
__________________
My Work: http://www.youtube.com/ChadWork1
Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony PMW-EX1 :: FCPx :: AT4053b :: Rode NTG-3,
Chad Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2012, 02:47 AM   #113
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
Posts: 1,941
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Well to add in over 32 years of TV and film production I have only ever used stereo mic's as an overall stereo source or to record sound effects or a music ensemble in stereo, I also tend to use one stereo mic with mono spot mic's panned and that goes for soccer too as we generally have lots of mono mic sources and an overall stereo soundfield mic in the roof of the stadium.

95% of my work involves recording mono mic's but some of them may be panned as stated to create a controllable stereo image or soundstage.

Stereo can be created better in post prod and even mono sources can be given stereo width using digital room simulation etc.
__________________
Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/
Gary Nattrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2012, 04:30 AM   #114
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Glasgow , Scotland
Posts: 207
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Hi , I haven't read all the way through this thread , so apologies if someone has suggested this already .

Take a look at the Sony ECM MS2 - it is designed as an onboard stereo mic , has a fifteen inch cable terminating in two XLR connectors and requires phantom power . Here in the UK , it sells for a little over £200

At higher price points there are offerings from Sennheisser , Audio Technica and Rode .

For me , the Sony looks ideal to mount on the camera for general use , plugged into the two XLR sockets on the rear of my GY-DV500 , and I will mount a radiomic receiver on the back of the camera , wired to the front XLR to use when filming 'talking heads' , for which mono will suffice .
Derek Heeps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2012, 04:51 AM   #115
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
Posts: 1,941
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Looks an ideal size if you need to have a stereo mic mounted on your camera: http://pro.sony.com/bbsccms/assets/f...res/ECMMS2.pdf
__________________
Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/
Gary Nattrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2012, 09:15 AM   #116
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Looks like an interesting mic.

It may be worth noting that this is M/S configuration, which some folks like less than a conventional X/Y type. (No opinion offered here, there have been other relevant threads.)

Also worth noting that the specs mention 40V minimum phantom voltage, so be sure your camera/recorder/mixer provides this much voltage (some provide less).
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2012, 10:39 AM   #117
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Arcata, Ca
Posts: 750
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Yes be aware that is is a Mid/Side mic. You need to deal with the audio in post much differently with m/s recordings. The result is much more variable than typical stereo, but you must know what you're doing. Here's an article I wrote on m/s so you know what you're getting into:

Recording with the Mid-Side Microphone Configuration | BH inDepth
__________________
My Work: http://www.youtube.com/ChadWork1
Sony FS5 :: Panasonic GH4 :: Sony PMW-EX1 :: FCPx :: AT4053b :: Rode NTG-3,
Chad Johnson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2012, 01:48 PM   #118
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Cornsay Durham UK
Posts: 1,941
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Yes it is a mid side mic but I suspect like all the other sony's that I have used that it outputs in A/B or Left and right stereo mode.

There is a big difference in a M/S mic that outputs in A/B and recording M/S as that requires a matrix to encode the signals.
__________________
Over 15 minutes in Broadcast Film and TV production: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1044352/
Gary Nattrass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2012, 02:09 PM   #119
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,177
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

That Sony ECM-MS2 appears to have a built-in matrix to output A/B when used in stereo.
But if you remove power from the "Right" channel, it outputs "M" only on the "Left" output.
That makes it rather more handy than your typical A/B stereo microphone.
Especially for camera-top applications.
Richard Crowley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2012, 02:30 PM   #120
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Glasgow , Scotland
Posts: 207
Re: I need a very cheap stereo XLR mic

Yes , the nice thing for those of us with switchable phantom on the rear of our camcorders is that it is only neccessary to flick the CH2 phantom switch to off to change to mono .

I don't have one yet , but have more or less decided to get one ,
Derek Heeps is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:50 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network