Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1 at DVinfo.net

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Old August 21st, 2011, 05:26 PM   #1
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Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Hola guys,
i need your help cause i was watching a preview of a couple of years ago when i tested to record the voice of the speaker for a 5 minutes doc trough a Z1 and a Senneheiser eng g2 lavalier. The bad thing is that i hear a noisy sound in the back of the voice and makes me think it decreases the value of the doc. So after all these months i want to record the speaker voice again with the same gear: HDV camera with phantom xlr connection and ENG G2.
Could you gimme suggestion to what should i do and what should avoid to have a good sound and to not have that boring "FRSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" in the back of the voice?
Thx a lot
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Old August 21st, 2011, 09:05 PM   #2
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

I'm assuming that by "speaker" you mean person who speaks, and by "voice" you mean the dialog that person speaks. But then you say "back of the voice" and I'm confused what that means.... background of the recording of the dialog/speech?

Anyway, sounds pretty clear that you have simple noise, which I'm guessing is because you didn't correctly set your levels. Google around for gain or levels (+audio or +noise) or look for youtube videos to learn how to set gain/levels to avoid noise.
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Old August 21st, 2011, 10:13 PM   #3
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

The Z1 has preamps that are somewhat better than the PD150/170s but still produce some floor noise. Add that to gain (levels) that are a bit too hight whether its the camera audio levels or the receiver levels or both and you get what you are hearing. SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH behind the vocal.
Thats background hiss that can be gotten rid of by any number of ways. The best of course is setting the levels of the receiver/transmitter correctly so they don't emit a hiss. then of course by running the audio on the camera in manual mode and adjusting the levels on the camera properly that will also eliminate some if not all of the noise. Finally, in Vegas by using the TRACK EQ in the track header you can set it to eliminate any remaining noise or you can use the graphic EQ in non-realtime effects. I would start with learning the proper way to set the levels on the receiver/transmitter and the camera first.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 03:20 AM   #4
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Yep guys, sorry 4 my english
SPeaker= i mean the person who speaks
Voice=dialog

The SHHHRRRRRR is the noise LOL!
Is there a tutorial somewhere where to learn how to set the levels?
thx
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 07:01 AM   #5
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Marcus,
I haven't seen any tutorials on line anywhere about how to set the levels of the various wireless kits and cameras but if you either read the manual with the wireless or look it up on line at the Sennheiser website you should be able to find some information.
All I can tell you the following information that I use on my Audio Technica wireless as a starting point for most situations.
I keep the body transmitters set to 0db od attenuation for most subjects unless they have a quiet whispery voice in which case I might set that body pak to +6db of attenuation. I then adjust the levels on the receiver and camera to fit in the -20 to -12 range (with -12 being peak). this eliminates most all of the floor noise in my old time PD170s abd gives me the best overall sound for the great majority of recordings.
These setting are in my opinion the best overall setting for most situations and cameras. I have run my audio like this with many many different camera makes and models and frankly the -20 to -12 seems to works the best.
Take your Z1 audio out of AGC and set it to manual, try some tests settings with the Sennheiser lav setup and find the sweet spot. record a little tape with each setting saying what the settings are for both the wireless and camera then load it into your NLE. Now you'll have a much more accurate idea of what the capability is and where the sweet spot is. Do it once and you'll never forget!
Good luck
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 07:57 AM   #6
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Right now the tx and rx are set in this way:

Rx squelch LOw
Af out LEV -06

TX with the mic
sensit -20 DB

thx 4 your help guys!I really appreciate
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 08:31 AM   #7
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Martell View Post
Right now the tx and rx are set in this way:

Rx squelch LOw
Af out LEV -06

TX with the mic
sensit -20 DB

thx 4 your help guys!I really appreciate
-20dB on the TX is for singing or a very loud (shouting) voice.

Normal speech level should be 0dB or -10dB. -20dB will give you a noisy signal if the person is speaking normally or quietly.

Squelch = LOW is normally best - so this is OK.

RX out will depend on what you are feeding it into. Best is to keep the level high and go into a line level input.

I hope this helps.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 08:49 AM   #8
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

"Normal speech level should be 0dB or -10dB. -20dB will give you a noisy signal if the person is speaking normally or quietly."
So that's maybe the cause of my problems......

John i didn't get the part about the RX Out, sorry 4 my english! You suggest an higher value to reduce in post?
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 08:55 AM   #9
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Other question:
Where exactly would you guys suggest to attach the little microphone? 20 cm from the mouth? These speach should be for the voice over a documentary
thx
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 09:39 AM   #10
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Martell View Post
"Normal speech level should be 0dB or -10dB. -20dB will give you a noisy signal if the person is speaking normally or quietly."
So that's maybe the cause of my problems......

John i didn't get the part about the RX Out, sorry 4 my english! You suggest an higher value to reduce in post?
The best quality is to go into a line-level input, setting a high level out of the receiver.

If you set the receiver to a low level output (mic. level) and go into a microphone input you tend to get more noise as you are reducing the level in the receiver and booting it again with the mic. pre-amp.

It's nothing to do with "reducing in post", just getting the correct level in without adding noise.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 09:43 AM   #11
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Martell View Post
Other question:
Where exactly would you guys suggest to attach the little microphone? 20 cm from the mouth? These speach should be for the voice over a documentary
thx
Normally the best place is to put the mic. high up on the tie centrally - maybe pointed down to stop nose-blast noises.

Make sure you address the cable properly to prevent cable rubbing noises getting to the mic.

See HERE for advise about mic. fitting.

I hope this helps.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 09:58 AM   #12
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Martell View Post
Other question:
Where exactly would you guys suggest to attach the little microphone? 20 cm from the mouth? These speach should be for the voice over a documentary
thx
One way to find a good starting point location for a lav is to make a fist and place it on your upper chest with the middle joint of the thumb touching the base of your throat. The knuckle of your little finger will fall at just about the normal level on the chest for a mic to be clipped.

One important question ... why are you recording 'voice-over' with a wireless lav? Voice-over, as in narration spoken by an unseen announcer off-camera, is normally recorded in a sound-conditioned studio using studio mics similar to what would be used for a vocal music performance or radio announcing. There are a number of mics that are commonly used but they all tend to be large-diaphram condensor or dynamic mics, sometimes shotguns. Don't record it in camera. Instead use an dedicated audio recorder and add it to the video in post, or record directly into the computer and then add it to the video timeline during editing.
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 12:52 PM   #13
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Hi,
"One important question ... why are you recording 'voice-over' with a wireless lav?"

Simple answer: i can't afford another kind of mic for this NO BUDGET dvd! I have a NTG1 too but i don't have an appropriate audio platform to record
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Old August 22nd, 2011, 02:28 PM   #14
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Re: Help recording the speaker voice for a lil doc with SENNheiser lav and sony z1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Martell View Post
Hi,
"One important question ... why are you recording 'voice-over' with a wireless lav?"

Simple answer: i can't afford another kind of mic for this NO BUDGET dvd! I have a NTG1 too but i don't have an appropriate audio platform to record
Take a look at this page for a DIY audio booth that would enclose your NTG1 on a desktop

Harlan Hogan - Voice overs Narrations Commercials Promos
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