tascam dr100 + sd mixpre = how to set up?

[Rob Katz]

tascam dr100 + sd mixpre = how to set up?

in a few weeks i'm on an audio only gig for a local radio station.

they are providing a tascam dr100 and at803 lavs. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68272-REG/Audio_Technica_AT803_AT803B_Mini_Clip_On.html
i did a quickie test the other day and was stunned by the low levels i was getting and the noisy pre-amps on the dr100.

i used the at803 with phantom power and the mid gain engaged and still had to record near 9 to get decent levels.

i have a mixpre from my own audio kit.

i was going to use their at803 lav powered via phantom from the mixpre which should offer a cleaner, louder signal.

would i then go xlr out of the mix pre into the tascam dr100?

or line out from mixpre and line in on the tascan dr100?

if the later line out/line in set-up,

what type of cable would i be using?

thanks in advance for any info you care to share.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions

[Steve House]

According to the manual the DR-100 has a -10dBV consumer line level input on a 3.5mm TRS jack. The MixPre XLR main outputs are +4dBu line level, too hot for the Tascam line input, BUT the MixPRe also offer a consumer level "Tape Out" at -10dBv on a 3.5mm jack on the left side panel. So connect the MixPre's tape out to the Tascam's line in with a standard 3.5mmTRS to 3.5mmTRS stereo patch cable and you should be in business.

[Tom Morrow]

My recollection is that the DR100 does not accept line level on the XLRs so you would have to use 1/8".

The DR100MKII which was just introduced has line XLR inputs.

[Jon Fairhurst]

Unfortunately, the AT803b has very low sensitivity (-45dB). It's important that it be affixed close to the speaker. For comparisons sake, shotgun sensitivity typically ranges from -30dB to -39dB sensitivity. Some are as high as -24dB. FWIW, the Sanken COS-11D with the XLR adapter has -35dB sensitivity.

The DR-100 preamps aren't bad, but they aren't great either. It's competitive with the H4n. Running the AT803b into a clean preamp and pumping up the gain into the DR-100 can certainly help.

My wife used an AT803b for public speaking and it worked well in that environment. It wasn't noise free, but neither was the mixing board or power amps.

[Rob Katz]

Originally Posted by Steve House

According to the manual the DR-100 has a -10dBV consumer line level input on a 3.5mm TRS jack. The MixPre XLR main outputs are +4dBu line level, too hot for the Tascam line input, BUT the MixPRe also offer a consumer level "Tape Out" at -10dBv on a 3.5mm jack on the left side panel. So connect the MixPre's tape out to the Tascam's line in with a standard 3.5mmTRS to 3.5mmTRS stereo patch cable and you should be in business.

Steve-

Thanks for the info.

I proceeded just as you suggested.

All worked like a charm.

You can really hear the difference the MixPre offers the recording level/noise floor.

I would welcome the opportunity to learn more about how to use the MixPre to its fullest.

I feel it is the most under-utilized piece of equipment in my audio kit.

Again, thanks for sharing your obvious experience.

Be well.

Rob
Smalltalk Productions

[Rob Katz]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Unfortunately, the AT803b has very low sensitivity (-45dB). It's important that it be affixed close to the speaker. For comparisons sake, shotgun sensitivity typically ranges from -30dB to -39dB sensitivity. Some are as high as -24dB. FWIW, the Sanken COS-11D with the XLR adapter has -35dB sensitivity.

The DR-100 preamps aren't bad, but they aren't great either. It's competitive with the H4n. Running the AT803b into a clean preamp and pumping up the gain into the DR-100 can certainly help.

My wife used an AT803b for public speaking and it worked well in that environment. It wasn't noise free, but neither was the mixing board or power amps.

Jon-

Great point about a mic's sensitivity.

No where on the B&H site under the AT803's specs does it list the mic's sensitivity.

I wish manufacturer's would do a better job of listing equipment specifications.

Additionally, I wish I knew more about how to read microphone spec charts.

Any "how-to" you can recommend?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Be well.

Rob
Smalltalk Productions

[Tom Morrow]

For specs check out the Microphone Data website. You may have to register and log in but it's worth it for the ability to compare specs from different manufacturers in one place.

Microphone Data - Login

[Steve House]

Originally Posted by Rob Katz

Jon-

Great point about a mic's sensitivity.

No where on the B&H site under the AT803's specs does it list the mic's sensitivity.

I wish manufacturer's would do a better job of listing equipment specifications.

Additionally, I wish I knew more about how to read microphone spec charts.

Any "how-to" you can recommend?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

Be well.

Rob
Smalltalk Productions

B&H may not have listed it but the specs on the Audio Technica web site certainly do and they're only about 3 mouse clicks away.

"OPEN CIRCUIT SENSITIVITY Phantom: -44 dB (6.3 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa; Battery: -46 dB (5.0 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa"

That's the output voltage at 1 Pascal sound pressure, roughly 94dBSPL, which is the standard reference level. The "re(ference) 1V" means 1 volt is the 0dB reference level, hence -44dB means the voltage is 44dB below 1 volt, sometimes written -44dBV.

[Jase Tanner]

I frequently run from the Tape Out on the Mixpre into the 1/8" on my DR 100 just for back up in case of a tape drop out. The one time I had to use it, I thought it was an acceptable match.

[Rob Katz]

Originally Posted by Steve House

B&H may not have listed it but the specs on the Audio Technica web site certainly do and they're only about 3 mouse clicks away.

"OPEN CIRCUIT SENSITIVITY Phantom: -44 dB (6.3 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa; Battery: -46 dB (5.0 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa"

That's the output voltage at 1 Pascal sound pressure, roughly 94dBSPL, which is the standard reference level. The "re(ference) 1V" means 1 volt is the 0dB reference level, hence -44dB means the voltage is 44dB below 1 volt, sometimes written -44dBV.

steve-

taking the suggestion of tom morrow, i registered at microphone data.

i then started to look up some of the mics i most often use.

under my akg ck93 it states:

"Output Sensitivity 10.0mV/Pa"

how do i interpret that statement so i can compare/contrast sensitivity between mics that i use?

thanks in advance to any and all who care to share.

be well

rob
smalltalk productions

[Steve House]

At the typical reference sound level, represented by a sound loud enough to produce an overpressure of 1 Pascal (94dBSPL), the CK93 puts out 10 millivolts compared to the AT803's 6.3 millivolts. That translates to -40dBv. In other words, if you put the AT803 side-by-side with the CK93 and recorded the same sound with both at the same time, the AT803 output would be 2/3 that of the CK93 and you would have to turn the gain up on its channel to record both with the same loudness. Put another way, we would say the CK93 is more sensitive than the AT803 because it takes a less intense sound to get the same output voltage from it

[Greg Miller]

What Steve says is absolutely correct. Here's another way to look at the question.

Most mics are specified at the same acoustic level, 1 Pa. That takes care of one variable.

The second variable is output voltage. That may be listed as an actual voltage, or might be listed as -x dB relative to 1 volt. Converting between actual voltage and dBV is easy.

The CK93 puts out 10mV. 10mV is -40dB relative to 1 volt.

We already know the at803 puts out 6.3mV. 6.3mV is -44dB relative to 1 volt.

So, if you want to think in terms of voltage, the at803 output is .63 times (roughly 2/3) as much as the CK93 output, for the same acoustic input level.

If you want to think in terms of dB, then the at803 is 4dB LOWER in sensitivity compared to the CK93. If you use the at803, you'd need an additional 4dB gain in your mixer to get the same output level, compared to the CK93. (And raising the gain by 4dB will also raise the mixer's background noise by 4dB -- which may or may not matter much, depending on how quiet the mixer is to begin with.)