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Old April 3rd, 2012, 07:54 AM   #1
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Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

A quick question from a novice.

I am looking at the JuicedLink DS214 and I note it sacrifices the right track to remove the inbuilt gain.

If I am recording music with a Rode Stereo Video mic will it be an acceptable result to lose the right track or will I lose the stereo sound?
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 02:22 PM   #2
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

You can't have stereo sound from just the left channel of a stereo mic! Anyway you won't get the best result from an on camera mic (I assume that's how you intend to use the SVM?)

Can you not record it on a Zoom or Tascam or similar audio recorder and use the camera for a reference track, syncing it up in post?

Do you have a particular gig to record? I might be able to help, depending on where and when.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 02:55 PM   #3
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

Hello Colin, thanks for the reply and offer.

Its a local gig with a band from Williamwood High. I have decided to purchase a Tascam as you say it will work better for me anyway allowing me to place it on the B cam (Canon 7D) and just let it run. I won't drag you out on a Sunday night and thanks again for the kind offer.

I have Plural Eyes so will sync the tracks.

Thanks again for the info.

With regards

Jeff
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 04:48 PM   #4
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

Canon's DSLRs (prior to the 5D Mark III) have a low cut filter engaged at all times, so they're not great for recording live music. Yeah, they'll meet the (low) expectations for recording music on the street with a camera mounted mic, but they will be lacking in bass for recording a staged gig.

My understanding is that the 5D3 allows the low cut filter to be disabled, so it might be viable for music recordings when coupled with a good preamp with clean boost.
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Old April 12th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #5
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

Jeff

You may want to try putting the recorder closer to the music than the camera is. The further away you get the more room reverb you get. Avoid mounting on camera! With stereo, when you pan the camera left/right, you change the sound of the recording a lot. Best to put a stereo mic/recorder in the center, pointing directly at the stage, as close as you can get, while still picking up the PA speakers. If there are no PA speakers, then put that recorder right in front of the stage, and it will sound much better. You can use a consumer tripod with a 1/4-20 screw to attach the recorder.
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Old April 18th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #6
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

Thanks Chad - very helpful advice.

I was just reading through all the forums and discovered the closer the better for stereo.

I will place as close as possible - means getting the levels right in the rehearsal.

Hoping as I purchased the Tascam DR-40 and its Dual recording feature at -x db will be useful as I won't be able to adjust or monitor the recording.

Have also asked if they'll use mics and a mixer and if so will take from the board.

Thanks again for the helpful response.

Regards

Jeff
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Old April 18th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #7
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

I am very used to High School bands - be VERY wary of what comes through the mixer. They usually do Spinal Tap proud, as as a result, you might find only a few sources go through the mixer, the rest being really loud without any extra amplification. You may also find the mixer being operated by a student. Who could be great and always get distinctions, or could be the bass player who got rejected for not being good enough who got given mixing duties to pacify him (even if he's rubbish at that too!)

During the rehearsal is the time to wander the room and listen to where it sounds best. Which could be the car park! Sorry - but I've been to dozens of these events over the years (I've been involved with BTEC & A Level Music Technology - and still have the tinnitus to prove it).

One downside is that it's sometimes the case where the video person gets accused of making them sound bad - when levels in the room are high, many find tuning difficult, but the cameras don't lie - revealing all the nasty components. I wouldn't even worry too much about stereo - very rarely do they mix in stereo, so it's often nearly mono, plus the room reverb as the stereo element.

Best of luck!
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Old April 20th, 2012, 06:44 AM   #8
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

Also helpful advice - have asked if they use a Sound Mixing Board and if there is an XLR or 1/4 inch output. They said that is Russian to them.

So have on loan a 20' cable and a AKG C747 (maybe 2) - never seen one these before seems to be recommended for music/woodwind use only in close proximity. This way I will be able to get the recorder close to me so I can monitor it and get the levels right (hopefully).

I'll do some tests tonight.

Thanks everyone for your comments.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #9
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

I'll reinforce Paul's comments if it is a rock band you are dealing with. I've worked with youth music for more years than I care to remember and unfortunately It's the exception to find a school rock band which really rehearses properly and whose members really listen to each other. All too often it's a case of hormones on an ego trip. However I have heard some excellent bands over the years from Renfrew and East Renfrew schools so I hope you have one like those.

If it's a wind band or similar then it's more likely to be naturally balanced if the conductor knows his stuff but intonation is likely to be an issue at times.

Recording any sort of band which can't or doesn't balance in a live gig, whether acoustic or electric, is a thankless task and virtually impossible to do well and as Paul says you are likely to get the blame for producing a recording of what it actually sounded like rather than what the youngsters thought it sounded like at he time. I have fortunately never met a singer like Florence Foster Jenkins but I have met several of her equivalents on guitar, bass and drums.

Good luck with the gig - the better the band, the easier it is to record!
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Old April 23rd, 2012, 04:52 AM   #10
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

All went well - best sound I have recorded to date.

Not sure if it stacks up to everyone's standards in here - however I am finally happy with a live music sound capture.

Phew!

Thanks again everyone - the advice as perfect. Will put a wave up in a while for your evaluation.
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Old April 23rd, 2012, 05:15 AM   #11
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

Glad it went well, Jeff!

Just out of interest, how did you end up doing the audio? Did you dingie the mixer and just use mics?

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Old April 23rd, 2012, 02:55 PM   #12
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

Yes, but I would have liked to have captured their sound for the MC's although I didn't have a long enough XLR cable (needed around 60m) nor enough inputs on the Tascam as I was using 1&2 for the internal mics as a standby.

They did mix their sound very well and I asked them to keep the MC mic gain down and they obliged nicely.

This is a 16bit extract and it sounds a little more hissy and hollow than the final recording. Also no mixing on this so its a little unbalanced as they did put the piano in too close. Overall, though I think they'll be please with this.
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File Type: wav MVI_1426 Audio Extracted_1_03.wav (8.16 MB, 74 views)
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Old April 23rd, 2012, 03:41 PM   #13
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Re: Live music recording with the JuicedLink DS214 and Canon 7D

Ah, so it was Maestoso! I'm sure their balance was bang on. I think some us thought it was a different kind of gig. :-)

I would have liked to hear a bit of the stereo version of the recording

(I know a teensy bit about this kind of thing having been the Dunbartonshire Wind Ensemble's Musical Director for a bit a number of years ago.)
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