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Old September 18th, 2012, 11:32 PM   #31
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Re: New to external mics

Nick,

With all due respect to you as a human being, you have mis-read numerous things that have been stated (and re-stated) here. You insist on disagreeing with all the technical information that has been given to you.

Numerous people have tried to explain this from various perspectives, and in every case you end up explaining why these people are wrong. You've obviously already decided what you want to do, and you go to great pains to explain that your preconceived idea is more valid than our combined years of experience.

So let me boil this down to one non-technical question, which is more philosophical in nature:

Are you here to get advice, or to give it?
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Old September 18th, 2012, 11:40 PM   #32
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Re: New to external mics

Responding to Richard's post first

I'm hoping for product recommendations. The Olympus mic that I own is a stereo lapel mic and does an acceptable (in my opinion very good) job of just this. I'm an amateur filming hawks and armadillos with an xa10, not the audio track for a motion picture. :-)

To show these mics exist, its the bottom one in the pic.

http://tinyurl.com/9sojctc

This is an omni-directional stereo mic that works quite well on one's lapel.

Being phantom powered lav mics are expensive (for my budget), can anyone recommend a small battery box that would allow the Olympus to transmit the right voltage to the mixer? It would be very appreciated.

Greg

Please reread my replies. Your statement indicating that I have said "why" everyone is wrong does not reflect what has happened. Today, you may have gotten angry but I have learned a great deal. Yesterday I knew nearly nothing. Please don't say I still do know nothing, that would be trite.

My current plan is to use a shotgun (to everyone's disapproval) based though on my past success with them for my use. The battery pack to connect a stereo lapel (again used in the past with success) comes from your recommendation. You have taught a rank amateur (very appreciated) and were mostly patient with me. Hang in there!

Nick
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Old September 18th, 2012, 11:54 PM   #33
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Re: New to external mics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Mirro View Post
Being phantom powered lav mics are expensive (for my budget), can anyone recommend a small battery box that would allow the Olympus to transmit the right voltage to the mixer?
No, no, no. (smacking self on forehead) You still don't get it at all.

The mic does not provide the DC power to the mixer or recorder or camera.

The mixer or recorder or camera should provide DC power to make the mic work.... or else you need the battery box.

Really, Nick, you have so badly misconstrued the technical details that I'm afraid to give you any further suggestions, for fear that you will misinterpret them and either waste money on the wrong hardware, or muck up something (e.g. blowing up a mic by using the wrong power).

(If I needed such a power supply, I'd build one. Obviously since you continue to confuse phantom power with "plug in power" and have no basic understanding of electronics, it's not safe for you to even contemplate building such a thing.)

If you get the correct mixer, it will provide power for the mic; you won't need a battery box at all. On the other hand, if you get the wrong mixer, or use the wrong adapter, and feed the wrong power to the mic, you have a very good chance of blowing up the mic. Read the specs for the mic. Read the specs for the mixer in question. That should answer all your questions. If not, you'd be better off consulting a reliable dealer who can hold your hand and hopefully avoid any fatal errors.

In fact, you obviously don't have very high expectations about the audio quality. I think the simplest thing for you to do is just go to the local Radio Shack (not to be confused with "reliable dealer") and let them sell you some consumer junk. If it works to your satisfaction (i.e. getting $50 sound to accompany your $1100 picture) then that's great. If it doesn't work, or blows up something else, then at least you'll know who to blame.

Last edited by Greg Miller; September 19th, 2012 at 12:27 AM.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:13 AM   #34
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Re: New to external mics

Mr. Mirro, Those are cheap plastic consumer toys. They are not "lav" mics as witnessed by the fact that most of them have a 3.5mm stereo jack where they are intended to plug directly into your little toy recorder, not hang from your necktie or clip to your blouse.

I shouldn't have to even say this here, but nobody seriously believes that you can get any significant "stereo" effect from two microphone capsules (especially omnidirectional ones) spaced less than an inch apart. Those things are sold to technically ignorant consumers who don't know any better. But of course if you have your mind made up, nothing we write here will have any effect on your decision. OTOH, for others who are reading this, get a clue and do some reasonable research.

I regret even getting into this hopeless conversation.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:23 AM   #35
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Re: New to external mics

So Richard said this regarding whether the mixer could power the Olympus mic.

Quote:
(Hint: the answer is no way unless you want to fry the microphone)
which is why I went back to the batter box idea. And now you, Greg are saying this.

Quote:
If you get the correct mixer, it will provide power for the mic
and then this

Quote:
Really, Nick, you have so badly misconstrued the technical details that I'm afraid to give you any further suggestions, for fear that you will misinterpret them and either waste money on the wrong hardware, or muck up something (e.g. blowing up a mic by using the wrong power).
Lets all swallow our pride here and maybe we can end on a good note. Greg, please consider telling me how I might get the Olympus to work with the desired mixer. That would be very appreciated, and my esteem for you would be even higher.

Richard, The separate $69 (my price) Olympus stereo mic comes with a tie-clip and an extension.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 03:39 AM   #36
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Re: New to external mics

Nick:

What are the specs for the "desired mixer" ? I think I've stated more than once that you need to check the specs. You seem to be ignoring this.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 04:17 AM   #37
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Re: New to external mics

Nick, why do you want to record your commentary in the field as you're shooting? You're going to be busier than a one-armed paper hanger trying to handle the camera and record clear, coherent narration at the same time and both elements of a successful video are going to suffer as a result. Record and add your narration commentary later as part of the editing process.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 07:55 AM   #38
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Re: New to external mics

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Originally Posted by Steve House View Post
Nick, why do you want to record your commentary in the field as you're shooting?
Just a guess, Steve, but I think it's a high school science project.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 12:47 PM   #39
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Re: New to external mics

Ok well I guess its not a high school science project. Maybe I'm something like a doctor and owner of a software business. For what this is worth, I've been a serious wildlife photographer/naturalist for 17 years. I'm just new to the idea of videography with improved audio, a very steep learning curve if compressed to a week, as here.

Oh well, pejoratives aside, here are the specs for the mixer. I still appreciate the input :-) from experts in this area, even if it comes with some freshman hazing.

Input Connections 4 - 3-pin XLR female
Output Connectors 2 - 3-pin XLR male
Max Input/Output Gain +55dB
Input Impedance: 600 Ohms
Output Impedance: XLR 500 Ohms
Signal-to-Noise Ratio 84dB
Phantom Power +18V DC
AC Power Requirements x2 9-Volt Alkaline Batteries
Current Draw: 30mA
Dimensions 6.3 x 2.3 x 3.7" (160 x 58.41 x 93.98mm) (WxHxD)
Weight 1.5 lbs (680.38 g)

Regarding field narration, I am looking for that option but don't to do it exclusively. As you suggest, live narration is very tough to do even fairly well, but it is a skill you can build. I have been working at it since starting with the prior HG10 in 2009. Hope that clarifies a bit.

Photography in the bush is like hanging paper with one arm (upside-down as my wife says). That is part of the appeal. :-)
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:17 PM   #40
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Re: New to external mics

What ...... Phantom power 18volts? NEVER get a mixer that will not give you 48v phantom power other wise it will dramatically limit your choice of usable mics.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:28 PM   #41
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Re: New to external mics

Thanks for the help. Here are the 2 mics that I'm hoping to use with that mixer.

AUDIO TECHNICA AT875

Transducer Fixed-charge back plate, permanently polarized condenser
Polar Pattern Line + gradient
Frequency Response 90Hz - 20,000Hz
Dynamic Range (Typical) 107 dB, 1 kHz at Max SPL
Sensitivity -30 dB (31.6 mV) re 1V at 1 Pa
Impedance 100 ohms
Signal-to-Noise Ratio RATIO 74 dB, 1 kHz at 1 Pa
Maximum Input Sound Level 127 dB SPL, 1 kHz at 1% T.H.D.
Power Requirements 11-52V DC, 2 mA typical
Output Impedance 100 ohms
Output Connectors Integral 3-pin XLRM-type
Phantom Power 11-52VDC, 2 mA typical
Dimensions 6.89" (175.0mm) Long
0.83" (21.0mm) Diameter
Weight 2.8 oz (80 g)


AND THE PROBLEM CHILD - Olympus ME51S Olympus ME-51S Stereo Microphone 145037 B&H Photo Video

(using a Y-adapter)

Type Stereo Electret Condenser Microphone
Frequency Response 100Hz - 15kHz
Directivity Uni-directional x 2
Sensitivity -40dB @ 1kHz
Impedance 2.2 kOhms
Plug 3.5mm Stereo
Power Supply Plug-in-power System (1.5V - 10V)
Dimensions (L x B x H)
1.5 x 0.55 x 1.6" (38 x 14 x 40mm)
Weight 0.24 oz (7 g), 0.6 oz (18 g) with cable and clip
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #42
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Re: New to external mics

...
Regarding field narration, I am looking for that option but don't to do it exclusively. As you suggest, live narration is very tough to do even fairly well, but it is a skill you can build. I have been working at it since starting with the prior HG10 in 2009. Hope that clarifies a bit.
...:-)[/QUOTE]

Actually it doesn't. I'm a "do whaver it takes to do it the best it can be done" sort of guy. If recording in the field means the quality will be compromsed, instead of trying to fit the round peg into the square hole by "building the skill" and making the best of it, I change the approach and do what I know will work better, In the case of narration I see no benefit to recording in the field but lots of potential negatives. So I'fd focus on pictures in the field, perhaps making notes to myself on a pocket note recorder if I felt the need, and record my actual narration back in the edit studio where I can focus exclusively on the task at hand and use the right equipment to get the job done a good as I can do it.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #43
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Re: New to external mics

Please let me continue what I have been doing such that I can use the Canon XA10? I really miss it. The HG10 was sold and so things are kind of at a standstill. The budget for this will not allow it to be done as you might prefer.

If giving out this sort of hardware compatibility advice, or not doing it "the best it can be done," is against terms of service here...

Can I just say I won't do it and ask how the 2 mics may be made to work (if possible) with the mixer?
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Old September 19th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #44
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Re: New to external mics

Forget the Olympus mic..... It is a mic made for domestic note taker recorders and NOT for serious video production.

If you purchase an audio mixer make sure it has the capability to monitor the return audio back from the camera.
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Old September 19th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #45
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Re: New to external mics

Brian. My productions are not that serious. Just trying to get something together on a very tight budget. The mic output has been tested and is perfect for my use. Its sound quality, balance of ambient and voice, and the fact that I own it already make it perfect from my view.

I've already used it and love the results. It is in line with or better than any lav mic at that price point.
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