XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 13th, 2012, 11:07 AM   #1
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,682
XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

Iím sure my old Canon XL1 has a low serial number because I picked it up before they became a rage. When it was new I marveled at the quality of the true stereo audio that was being recorded by a camcorders on board mic. I have been told many times the mic is a Sennheiser but I donít know for sure. Now, after all these years, the camera it is going to my AV bone yard.

I searched, but if my question was asked it has probably been archived. So, how do I salvage the microphone from the XL1. All of my other condenser mics receive their phantom power either through the XLR cable from the mixer or a battery. This mic has a peculiar pin configuration. I am guessing the TRS 3.5 mini male pin delivers the audio and the sub mini TS pin delivers power.

What is the best way to adapt or rebuild that two pin set up for a standard XLR mic input. Is it possible? Most of my mixers only deliver 48 volt phantom power, Iím not sure what this mic takes?
And I donít care if the end result is mono. Sometimes I place shotgun mics in a room just to give me a room noise track. If I can save this mic it would be OK for that, but those are usually long cable runs so they must be balanced.
__________________
www.CorporateShow.com
Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!
Steven Digges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 04:05 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Zealand, Rapaura (near Blenheim)
Posts: 434
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

Does this help?

http://www.coycypert.net/files/CANON%20DM-XL1.pdf

It's a 27Mb service manual, but judging from the front page, the microphone is an external unit easily removed, so it probably is not the same model. But if I found this, there may be a closer match out there.
__________________
Stills at: www.flickr.com/photos/trevor-dennis/
Trevor Dennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 05:42 PM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,682
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

Trevor, Thank you for digging that up.

Much of it is over my head but I was able to glean some information from it. Bad news. It looks to me like the Mic runs on 5 volts. Most of my mixers are 48v. My EFP mixer can be set for 12v but that is as low as I can go. I don't know how I could deal with the 5v requirement and the stereo wiring of the mic.

It is a fairly good mike but I am in over my head trying to convert it to an afterlife. What a shame, there must be thousands of these mics laying around in obsolete XL1s.

Thanks again for the information.

Steve
__________________
www.CorporateShow.com
Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!
Steven Digges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 1,844
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

An electret condenser microphone.. and normally only require 5V (or less) of bias current. A lot of (XLR) mics are not 'true' condensers but have a built-in transformer to use higher voltage Phantom Pwr.
Sorry, it's likely not worth the money or time to salvage.
Rick Reineke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 07:23 PM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,682
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

Rick, yes, that's the way it looks. And judging from the schematics in the manual that Trevor dug up the circuit to regulate the 5v is built into the camera not the mic. It was a good thought, but beyond basic wiring and soldering I am over my head anyway.

Steve
__________________
www.CorporateShow.com
Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!
Steven Digges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 08:05 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 3,634
Images: 18
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

It's eminently do - able to build an interface box for the XL 1/ s mic, I did it with mine as I wanted to use the mic on a boom pole.

The 5 volts - a 9 volt battery, connector, power switch and very basic 3 lead 5 volt regulator sorted that.

The hardest bit was finding a 2.5 mm and 3.5 mm socket that would sit close enough to one another to mate with the mic plug, that can be tricky and from memory required a small mod to one or the other to get them close enough.

In order to make it workable I bought a super el cheapo boom pole and screwed the box to it at the mic end so that the mic simply plugged in when mounted in its clip.

The signal lead was captive at the box end and terminated in a 3 pin XLR plug, which mated with a 3 pin socket held in the mic holder, with a flying lead from that to the 3.5 mm [ground/ left/ right] socket on the camera (this was so that I didn't have a 3.5 mm plug on the end of 5 metres of cable - one trip and bye bye plug & socket!).

If you're never going to use the mic on a XL1/ s again, I'd be tempted to dispose of the mics current plug arrangement entirely and come up with something better, maybe a 4 pin XLR (ground/ left/ right/ +5 volts) and put the box on the camera hot shoe, with two flying leads out for the twin XLR I/P's on the new camera.

To be absolutely frank, given that the O/P's from the mic aren't balanced (even having gone through all the pissing about above) I'd have to say it's all probably not warranted, given the relatively modest cost of a half decent new mic.


CS
Chris Soucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 08:32 PM   #7
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

I see the mics being sold on eBay for $75 and up. Someone out there must think they're worthwhile, as a direct replacement if nothing else.

Ya know, "converting" the mic sounds like an interesting and fairly simple project, and Chris Soucy has already confirmed what I suspected about the electrical details.

If you really like the mic that much, and you're not in a hurry, I might be able to collaborate with you on this. But you'd have to weigh Chris's comments and decide if that's the direction you really want to take. Let me know... either here or via EMail.

Last edited by Greg Miller; December 13th, 2012 at 09:10 PM.
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 10:37 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 3,634
Images: 18
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

You guys want to go for it, just holler................

I can give you photos's of the rig, box content and just about anything you want.

Hey, you could start a small business doing them, though doubt there's a heap of money to be made at it.

They're not bad mic's as things go, just useless mounted on a camera, which is why I decided to move mine to a boom pole in the first place.

Interestingly, the first trial was at Kew Gardens in London, with my missus doing the honours with the boom - amazing, the bloody tourists tip toed around us as if they'd be shot if they didn't, magic!


CS
Chris Soucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 10:52 PM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

Thanks, Chris.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Soucy
Hey, you could start a small business doing them,
Yes, very small, I'd think. ;-)

It sounds elementary: a project box, a battery holder, a toggle switch, maybe an LED, a 7805 regulator, two filter caps, two 3.5mm stereo jacks, and one 2.5mm mono jack. Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, gaff tape somewhere, just for good measure.

I would just need to know accurate centre-to-centre spacing on the connectors.

I guess IF I had one of these mics and IF I really liked it, I'd do the mod for myself. So I might be tempted to do it just to prove how simple it is. "As time permits," of course...

Do you think people are really throwing away these cameras? If I were going to retire one, I'd put it on eBay and try to get a few bucks.
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 13th, 2012, 11:41 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 3,634
Images: 18
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

Filter caps redundant, quite frankly, as it's battery powered. The bigest improvement would be moving from a 9 volt (PP3?) to a 12 volt camera battery, so much smaller, if you can but find a holder for it.

The mic only draws something like 2 milliamps, so a 12 volt camera battery should last ages.

A power LED is a must (it'll burn more power than the mic!), I didn't put one in as I had room problems and it was a complete pain without it.

Yeah, well, my XL 1s is heading for land fill sometime soon, alas.

About 6 years ago I had it on the back seat of the car, and had to do a sudden stop. Into the footwell it went.

From that moment on it simply wouldn't focus on anything beyond 70% zoom, and I had a choice - fix it or get a XH - A1 (very late getting here to NZ).

I went XH.

The XL1s has been doing nothing but taking up storage space all these years and won't ever work (properly) again.

After the XL bit the dust I didn't bother with the XL mic, as I bought Senny balanced mics for the XH, so the entire rig has been superceded, that's just the way it goes.

Give me a shout if you need any other info on the interface, but anyone who can rattle off 7805 has probably got it sussed.


CS
Chris Soucy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2012, 09:21 AM   #11
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,682
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

Greg,
Your on, lets do it. Just so it does not go to wast. I will send you a PM with contact info.

The XL1 is junk. The audio pods scream white noise and the fire wire port has not worked in ages. Over a year ago I sent it to Canon for repair and they shipped it back untouched with a note that said they no longer support the camera. I am keeping the lens because I also have two XL2s I use for back up cameras.

I do not need to put this mic on my boom, I have a Senny for that. I earn my living doing corporate work. That includes lots of ballroom shooting. Quite often I put a mic under the stage pointed at the audience and on its own track for audience response and room noise. I can always use an extra mic for that.

Thank You,

Steve
__________________
www.CorporateShow.com
Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!
Steven Digges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2012, 09:37 AM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

Chris,

Yeah, I've seen a few 7805s in my day. (Actually, I've seen a lot of 12AX7s in my day... sigh.)

Do you have any reason to believe that it really needs to be regulated +5.0? After all, three fresh alkalines would give you 4.5 to 4.6 volts, without wasting any current on a regulator.

Thanks again.

---

Steven,

Before I'd open the trash bin, I'd try eBay just for kicks. One man's trash is another man's treasure, and that cam was expensive in its day. Of course if you keep the lens, it would be worth less. I'll tell ya what... if it's not worth anything, you eBay it, then send me the $$$. ;-)

Meanwhile, waiting for your info.
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2012, 09:46 AM   #13
Trustee
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 1,682
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

I got the 5V info from the PDF repair manual posted above. I could be wrong but that is how it looked to me.

Steve
__________________
www.CorporateShow.com
Been at this so long I'm rounding my years of experience down...not up!
Steven Digges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,359
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

Steve,

Yes, I see "AUDIO 5V" comes from IC805 regulator on the AUDIO PCB. So I guess it's safest to regulate it. I'm not so much concerned about the $.25, as the extra current drain from the battery, which will reduce the battery life. Oh well, that's progress.
Greg Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2012, 10:25 PM   #15
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand
Posts: 3,634
Images: 18
Re: XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?

As promised, photos...........

Don't know whether the manual mentioned previous has this information, so, if not, here it is:

3.5 mm plug/ socket: tip - ground, ring 1&2 - left and right signal, can't remember which is which

2.5 mm plug/ socket: tip - +5 volts, ring - not connected

And yes, there is a 7805 shoehorned into that case, but as it's only the size of a very small pea, pratically invisible.


CS

PS: Note the artistic use of gaffer tape to pad the XLR connector out to be a tight fit in the XL1s mic holder!
Attached Thumbnails
XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?-dsc_3807.jpg   XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?-dsc_3808.jpg  

XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?-dsc_3809.jpg   XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?-dsc_3810.jpg  

XL1 to bone yard, can I salvage the mic?-dsc_3811.jpg  
Chris Soucy is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:29 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network