I think I've heard it all... at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

All Things Audio
Everything Audio, from acquisition to postproduction.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 19th, 2005, 11:45 AM   #1
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stockton, UT
Posts: 5,648
I think I've heard it all...

This is somewhat OT, but just can't help myself. It makes me wonder where some of this incredible logic (or lack thereof) comes from. As some of you know, I write for various magazines. Recently I did an article for Studio Monthly on how to mic in the field. It's a short, super fast reference guide. In there, I make comment on how on-camera mics should almost never be used, and if used, then at least a mic better than the built in cam mic should be used. I further commented that a $5.00 computer mic placed next to/near the subject will usually sound better than a 5,000.00 mic placed 20 feet away from the subject.
Studio Monthly received a comment following my article that went like this:
I take exception with Studio's advice on micing. I've made four feature movies, the fourth of which just hit the airwaves. And I've used the built-in mic on the camera for all the shoots. Never ever had a problem with micing. So now, the article was full of "knee-jerk" textbook stuff on micing. It may be good for documentaries, where you show the lavalier or boom-it. ...

Obviously I'm fairly confident in my work, but could it be that I'm not a realist, and rather an eliteist? Or are there really people out there making "professional" products that use built in mics? In honesty, my main reason for wondering is the management at the magazine doesn't know a mic from a mic stand, so they only can take the complaint as being possibly legit.

Can I get a reality check? Are there really people working this way and getting away with it?
__________________
Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot
Author, producer, composer
Certified Sony Vegas Trainer
http://www.vasst.com
Douglas Spotted Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 11:58 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 916
Are you sure the feedback didn't come from a guy shooting silent films?
Dennis Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 12:02 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: San Mateo, CA
Posts: 3,840
DSE
"I've made four feature movies, the fouth of which just hit the airwaves..."

What does this mean? What are 'the airwaves' in this guy's world? Local cable access or HBO?
Richard Alvarez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 12:05 PM   #4
Old Boot
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 3,528
Well, personally Douglas, I find tying a really taught string - I find the smooth quality ideal for this job - from an empty Corn can and knotting it to the on-board mic does it for me. Dirt cheap and has never let me down. Apart from anything else the Corn is really good for a snack. Position the open end towards the "talent" and hey presto! Voila! It's . . er .. in the can!

Huh . . I really don't know why I had bothered spending something in excess of 1k on Senni shotties, lapels and now a completely pointless reporter's mic. Can you? Teh! Yah just lives and learns . . eh . . yah just lives and learns . .

A reality check? If you are asking .. yah doesn't need it.

My on board-mic can pick up my flatulents . . ppphhhoooarrghh . . some 8 feet BEHIND the on-board mic. Preeeety sensitive I'd say. Yup! The Onboard mic . . For those er . . more "Sensitive Moments in Movie Making!"

Grazie!
Graham Bernard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 12:58 PM   #5
RED Problem Solver
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 1,365
Douglas, you're right - the nearer the mic to the sound it's recording the better. Most sound quality is lost between the sound producer and the sound sensor.

Nice article BTW, just read it the other day.

Graeme
Graeme Nattress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 02:15 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: McLean, VA United States
Posts: 749
You may be an eliteist in the sense that I'll bet your hearing is one hell of a lot better than the average guy's. I'm guessing that if you put me into a triangle test situation with stock on camera mics and high dollar replacements therefore that I couldn't pick the high dollar mic. I'll bet you could.
A. J. deLange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 03:46 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ontario
Posts: 445
I would like to know what mic the guy uses that can replace the time,knowledge and effort that would normally be put into making sure you nail the audio.Boy, how many people will that put out of work?
Douglas it surprises me that you would put ANY credance into that statement.We all strive to achieve a higher level and most of us are able to because of people like yourself that raise the bar thru not only technique and equipment but also mindset.
Just want to say thanks.
Jack Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 05:09 PM   #8
Wrangler
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 4,093
DSE,
I cannot possibly top Grazie's post, so I'll actually be serious. Even for my first little short film for The DV Challenge last week, I used a lav and an AT897. On board mic for all those shots? No way.
Thanks for all you do here, buddy. Hope we can meet one of these days.
__________________
Pete Bauer
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein
Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!
Pete Bauer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 05:17 PM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 936
It would be really funny if you saw one of that guy's films and it was all ECU of different forheads and adam's apples.

Then you'd think, "hmm... I guess that guy was right."


If there's one thing I've found it's that morons are like water... the very second you stop bailing in your boat of reasoning they'll overtake it and that ship sinks. That's how I see some of the forums too... it's like you have to keep that pail (metaphor for CORRECT information) going as the morons* keep pouring in wrong information like so much water.


*If you are in fact a moron... my appologies... I meant no offense.
Matt Gettemeier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 05:21 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 936
Can I send in a retort to that other guy's retort? If so let me know what I gotta' do.

I've always said the same thing... the closest mic wins.

Your analogy about a $5 mic over a $5K mic is obviously correct and I can't believe anybody would argue the point!

...whoops, gotta' go... more water's pouring into another part of this boat...

(Hey Douglas... thanks for doing your share of the bailing)
Matt Gettemeier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 05:30 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: currently in Kigali, Rwanda
Posts: 144
Douglas, I must plead guilty to using the built-in mic on my VX2000 from time to time, especially when shooting alone. I don't mind the sound and it saves me having to get a stereo bed when I'm in a hurry.

Having said that, I completely agree with you. I throw the wideangle on the front end and get 2 feet from the person speaking. Can someone make a entire feature at that distance? Sure, but who wants to watch "My Dinner With Andre" over and over again?
Tom Vandas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 06:37 PM   #12
Fred Retread
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Hartford, CT
Posts: 1,227
Talk is cheap. The guy has made an assertion in a vacuum. If it were a dialog, I'd say to him, "That is no less than astounding in the context my experience. Where can I see and hear your work?"

BTW, I think that the most remarkable thing about this thread is the humility with which it began. I could say more, but I'll just say I learned something. Thanks, DSE.
__________________
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence..." - Calvin Coolidge
"My brain is wired to want to know how other things are wired." - Me

Last edited by David Ennis; September 19th, 2005 at 08:40 PM.
David Ennis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 07:10 PM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Singapore
Posts: 111
Douglas, you're doing a great job... nothing wrong with your article.
Don't listen to that dude...

I'm guessing he was shooting rockumentarys...
Hsien Yong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 19th, 2005, 10:28 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Roanoke, VA
Posts: 796
DSE,

I'd like to read the article because I will be doing on location audio Wednesday and Thursday of this week. Could you point me to where I can find it?
__________________
Dave Perry Cinematographer LLC
Director of Photography Editor Digital Film Production 540.915.2752 daveperry.net
Dave Perry is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > All Things Audio

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:36 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network